I wonder how much that would fetch at auction now? I hope someone does a similar one for the new thing coming out. Is there any news on what the title of it will be? He surely owns ultimate copyright to calling it 'Fawlty's somethingorother'. ? (The BBC have milked the success of FT dry and strictly control its copyright.) A bit rich when Cleese has often stated that he had to do TV commercials to fund the making of the first series because the BBC would only pay him the standard 6k for the writing, performing and filming/editing, which took nearly a year of his time and effort to complete (way more than the average sitcom takes).

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 19th May 2023, 1:17 PM

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Poor Ian Main, such a claim to fame! On a par with the senator who told Caligula that his horse would make a lousy consul.

Well, quite! But to be fair to Ian Main, do we know if he'd read the completed script at that stage, i.e. the one that ended up in the actual episode - or could it have been an early draft, which after his damning response, they did a lot of rewriting to?

Not sure but thinking about it, it was such bold sitcom I'm sure the draft submitted (of Ep1 ATOC) would give the essence of the sitcom with its bold tone and characters firmly outlined, and any (cosmetic) rewrites wouldn't change what it was. And the end of May '74 can't be far off the start of filming date, meaning it must've been a draft in an advanced stage. It was in production for about ten months and aired in mid Sept 75 and I'm assuming they started on this ep first, so it could only have been weeks before it was worked on, - cast arranged for the ep and rehearsals begin.

But what does H.C.L.E Mean? ......Light entertainment?

Obviously someone else in the Beeb had a different opinion and gave it the go ahead. And it was an ITV producer who advised Cleese there was a series to be had with the concept, after a very basic prototype ep was aired in '71 so there was already a rough if quite different version as a pilot for the Beeb to go on.

Head of Comedy, Light Entertainment or similar.

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 21st May 2023, 9:30 AM

But what does H.C.L.E Mean? ......Light entertainment?

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Head of Comedy & Light Entertainment?
Jimmy Gilbert was Head of Comedy a the time.

And I've definitely heard his name before in the story of Fawlty Towers, so he obviously read the script himself and knew his stuff. Shame he's not still running it now then.

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 21st May 2023, 9:44 AM

And I've definitely heard his name before in the story of Fawlty Towers, so he obviously read the script himself and knew his stuff. Shame he's not still running it now then.

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Oddly, John Cleese recalls Gilbert giving him the 'cliched characters' note - followed by telling JC that he had to get the characters 'out of the hotel'.
But that's Wiki - so might be bollocks.
But Ian Main was only a script editor - surely in no position to say 'yay' or 'nay' to a commission? - so perhaps he was giving notes, or 'coverage' as the Americans call it, to Jimmy Gilbert who then gave a version of them to JC?

Oh yes that's true. To which Cleese rightly replied 'No, inside is where the whole pressure cooker builds up'. Cleese knew more about comedy than any of the execs, and his first job with the BBC was some kind of script editor or analyst himself, I've read, before getting his own shows to work on.

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 21st May 2023, 9:18 AM

Not sure but thinking about it, it was such bold sitcom I'm sure the draft submitted (of Ep1 ATOC) would give the essence of the sitcom with its bold tone and characters firmly outlined, and any (cosmetic) rewrites wouldn't change what it was. And the end of May '74 can't be far off the start of filming date, meaning it must've been a draft in an advanced stage. It was in production for about ten months and aired in mid Sept 75 and I'm assuming they started on this ep first, so it could only have been weeks before it was worked on, - cast arranged for the ep and rehearsals begin.

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The pilot episode was recorded in December 1974.

Quote: Lazzard @ 21st May 2023, 9:57 AM

But Ian Main was only a script editor - surely in no position to say 'yay' or 'nay' to a commission? - so perhaps he was giving notes, or 'coverage' as the Americans call it, to Jimmy Gilbert who then gave a version of them to JC?

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I believe Main's job was to read and assess everything they were sent, whether by outsiders or insiders. So no, he had no commissioning power, but was the first point of touch.

Quote: Aaron @ 21st May 2023, 8:26 PM

The pilot episode was recorded in December 1974.

I believe Main's job was to read and assess everything they were sent, whether by outsiders or insiders. So no, he had no commissioning power, but was the first point of touch.

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But I guess as a gatekeeper he could maybe halt some projrcts progress.
Its a bit like movies where the person least qualified to judge is the first person to read.

I think people are reading too much into this. TV, literature and film history is littered with successful shows, books and films which were initially rejected, criticised or dismissed by execs etc.

Couldn't agree more. Zzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Except arguably in TV in the 70s with just two broadcasters. If your show was rejected you had nowhere else to go with it, unlike today. I agree a big successful name like Cleese was always likely to get it through whatever the first reader thought of it, but there were countless unknowns who had probably good enough projects rejected. They relied very heavily on just a few well used contributors with some like Esmonde & Larbey, Croft & Perry, & Roy Clarke having a near monopoly on new sitcoms few unknowns could compete with.