Quote: Aaron @ April 14 2008, 9:37 PM BST

I don't think that's really fair, as it depends heavily on what kinds of people you're asking.

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I wasn't saying that a foreign programme IS the best on British TV, I was saying it is possible it can be, because to a lot of the people I speak to it is. A lot of people also say Friends and Fraiser too. Didn't Fraiser win a C4 sitcom poll in this country?

My favourite sitcoms of the past are pretty much all British but at the moment I'm enjoying more US stuff like 30 Rock, Arrested Dev., Family Guy, FOTC, The Office US.

I've never got into any of the US 24 series dramas, just because I know I'd lose half my life to watching them all.

Quote: ContainsNuts @ April 15 2008, 8:11 AM BST

I wasn't saying that a foreign programme IS the best on British TV, I was saying it is possible it can be.

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This is the point I was making.

Dan

Frasier won a "comedian's choice", taking in the opinions of comics on both sides of the pond, if I recall correctly.

And yes, exactly my problem with those dramas. I don't want to get sucked in for that amount of time. 8 weeks is about as much as I can handle.

Quote: Mark @ April 6 2008, 10:32 PM BST

I expect they'll get a few people who cant seperate fact from fiction ringing up tomorrow to complain about the way Karen and Louise put that cat down!

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The BBC did in the end get lots of complains about this. So many they had to issue a statement. I can't take credit for spotting this, but here is how it ends...

"We don't believe this scene could be seen to condone putting an animal down in this way, as is evidenced by the plan going so catastrophically wrong."

Bad choice of words!

>_<

Quote: Mark @ April 21 2008, 8:40 PM BST

The BBC did in the end get lots of complains about this. So many they had to issue a statement. I can't take credit for spotting this, but here is how it ends...

"We don't believe this scene could be seen to condone putting an animal down in this way, as is evidenced by the plan going so catastrophically wrong."

Bad choice of words!

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THIS IS SO FUCKING FUNNY, I ACTUALLY LIKE THE BBC MORE NOW

I watched about 5 minutes of Pulling last night. I didn't find it funny. And before you say anything, 5 minutes is more than enough to judge if a show is funny or not!

Just watched this episode last night and it occurred to me that Donna is one of the most thoroughly dislikeable characters on TV ever! I hate her on a par with Jill in Nighty, Night. At least Jill was honest in her motives. Donna doesn't seem to know and f**king annoys me immensely. I have my suspicions this makes her a good character...

Dan

I think Jill from Nighty Night was far more of a pantomime character, whereas with Donna there's something believable. She is lazy and selfish, but I personally think she has a certain charm. And least she wasn't involved in the cat killing.

What I'm getting from Donna this series, is that she's probably always thought she was a level better than those around her. When she split up with Carl in the first series; she assumed she'd be cutting herself free from this big weight, thought she'd really blossom and find something better. But now, in the second series, I think she's seeing that life isn't all that great, and perhaps the best thing to do a lot of the time is take what you can get. She might have always wondered if she'd have been better off away from Carl if she'd have stuck with him, but now she's probably thinking along the lines of...better off being stuck in a boring relationship with someone you can only half stand, then being left single for the rest of your life.

She thought she'd be off enjoying the high life, but in fact she's worse off than she ever was. On the surface, Karen and Louise might not seem like they're doing much better than Donna, but unlike Donna I think the other two don't particularly give too much thought to their lives. Okay, Louise has tried to better herself a little bit of late with those cock lollies, lol, but she does have that child like view of things, and seems to just go from one thing to the next, she doesn't really seem too fixated on the long term. Same with Karen really; she'd be perfectly happy with one night stands and hangovers for the rest of her life. Donna might have initially saw the appeal of that kind of lifestyle, but realized pretty early on it wasn't for her, it wouldn't take her where she wanted to go.

She does often come across as quite a mean spirited character though. For much of the second series she has been quite spiteful to Carl, trying to put him down to make herself feel better, perhaps to try and convince herself she's better off without him. But I do feel sorry for Donna, you really get that sense of being stuck in a rut with nowhere to go. I think that's made worse by the fact she's haunted by the fact she threw away the oppurtunity for some sort of future with Carl that may not have been ideal, but would have been good enough; and I think "good enough" is something Donna would gladly accept now.

Quote: patiowhore @ April 25 2008, 6:24 AM BST

What I'm getting from Donna this series, is that she's probably always thought she was a level better than those around her. When she split up with Carl in the first series; she assumed she'd be cutting herself free from this big weight, thought she'd really blossom and find something better. But now, in the second series, I think she's seeing that life isn't all that great, and perhaps the best thing to do a lot of the time is take what you can get. She might have always wondered if she'd have been better off away from Carl if she'd have stuck with him, but now she's probably thinking along the lines of...better off being stuck in a boring relationship with someone you can only half stand, then being left single for the rest of your life.

She thought she'd be off enjoying the high life, but in fact she's worse off than she ever was. On the surface, Karen and Louise might not seem like they're doing much better than Donna, but unlike Donna I think the other two don't particularly give too much thought to their lives. Okay, Louise has tried to better herself a little bit of late with those cock lollies, lol, but she does have that child like view of things, and seems to just go from one thing to the next, she doesn't really seem too fixated on the long term. Same with Karen really; she'd be perfectly happy with one night stands and hangovers for the rest of her life. Donna might have initially saw the appeal of that kind of lifestyle, but realized pretty early on it wasn't for her, it wouldn't take her where she wanted to go.

She does often come across as quite a mean spirited character though. For much of the second series she has been quite spiteful to Carl, trying to put him down to make herself feel better, perhaps to try and convince herself she's better off without him. But I do feel sorry for Donna, you really get that sense of being stuck in a rut with nowhere to go. I think that's made worse by the fact she's haunted by the fact she threw away the oppurtunity for some sort of future with Carl that may not have been ideal, but would have been good enough; and I think "good enough" is something Donna would gladly accept now.

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I think this is a good point, well argued. And I think it's probably the reason why Pulling, enjoyable though it is, will never be anything other than a cult comedy. Interestingly, the character Sharon Horgan played in that Channel 5 comedy was similarly blinkered and self-obsessed, so I'm wondering if this is the only character Horgan can play?

Are you suggesting she's playing herself, maybe, subconsciously at least?

I really don't like the Donna character. (Though this looks like it's a personal view I think). I don't mean I don't want her in it, but I find myself siding/feeling sorry for every single person she's dealing with (including Karen, somewhat surprisingly!).

I think Karen has more depth than suggested. She'll probably have an 'awakening' at some point. Sooner rather than later, I hope, cos the 'slag' routine is getting a bit long in the tooth now. I do prefer her as a character though.

I like Louise. She is obviously the least consequential/most whimsical character in there but that means she gets all the throwaway storylines whilst Donna keeps going on and on and on (and on...) about her life.

Dan

Yes, good point patiowhore.

I think its the intention of the writers that we're supposed to dislike Donna now.

From what I understand they're slowing building towards quite a big and perhaps un-expected final scene in the last episode of this series (but here's hoping there's another series!)

Interestingly, the character Sharon Horgan played in that Channel 5 comedy was similarly blinkered and self-obsessed, so I'm wondering if this is the only character Horgan can play?

She also played Rob Brydon's long-suffering assistant on Annually Retentive (which I thought was great) where I felt she was quite a sympathetic character, especially in the second series when the "Rob Brydon" character was totally losing it and needed her to come back to help him.

I never got around to watching the second series! Damn!

Must make myself a list of 'shows to watch soon, you lazy bitch'.