Well, regarding Stephen King, I've read his excellent book "On Writing" and he actually says that most people will never be 'genius' writers, because the potential to be one is handed out to few people, but a poor writer can become an OK writer and a good writer can become a very good writer if they spend the time learning the craft. I agree with him.

I've said before that I think writing (and comedy) is part "art" - having the flair or divine inspiration if you will, and part "craft" - working and re-working ideas until they sit right. Inspiration and perspiration and all that bollocks.

Not to say that it all comes 'easy' to the gifted few. Think of Eric Morecambe and how painstakingly he went over routines. Clearly a bloody comic genius, but so much work went into it.

I do think Perry's right about needing some foundation of natural talent to build on and all that.

yes, that's what i wanted to say....you put it across well James........maybe I need a writing course..LOL

On the subject of Stephen King. I agree about how excellent his On Writing book is, but he does whine on an awful lot about the bloke who hit him with a pick up. Get over it, King. Being hit with a pick up isn't such a big deal.

Quote: chipolata @ February 14, 2008, 3:26 PM

On the subject of Stephen King. I agree about how excellent his On Writing book is, but he does whine on an awful lot about the bloke who hit him with a pick up. Get over it, King. Being hit with a pick up isn't such a big deal.

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Yeah, rubbing it in with that picture of his mangled wheelchair-bound body on the inside of the dustjacket. And all that crap about black holes.

...No, wait, I'm looking at "A Brief History Of Time"...

Yes - On Writing is excellent.

And also yes you do need a certain level of talent. But I believe that training and attitude are more important.

That said there will always be the 1% of geniuses who come along and do things we didn't think were possible without really trying. As I am not one of those people I firmly believe in training!

Quote: chipolata @ February 14, 2008, 3:26 PM

On the subject of Stephen King. I agree about how excellent his On Writing book is, but he does whine on an awful lot about the bloke who hit him with a pick up. Get over it, King. Being hit with a pick up isn't such a big deal.

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Haha.

Hmm.

Shall we try it? Bagsy being the one in the pickup.

(Anyone reading his new book? The main character loses an arm in a vehicular accident. He is not leaving it behind!! It's ace so far though.)

I'm not sure Stephen King has the requisite merits to apply for this BBC mentoring scheme, and that's part of the problem I have with it. I'm sure Stephen King would vastly improve his writing skills if given the chance to be mentored by that 2 pints woman

Quote: zooo @ February 14, 2008, 6:22 PM

Haha.

Hmm.

Shall we try it? Bagsy being the one in the pickup.

(Anyone reading his new book? The main character loses an arm in a vehicular accident. He is not leaving it behind!! It's ace so far though.)

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No but I have just started re-reading Misery, which is also excellent.

Oooh yeah. One of the bestest books, evah.

Robin Kelly is spot on, imo. If you can't teach a monkey to write then why all the uni courses on creative writing etc?

A phrase like 'born leader' is normally only applied retrospectively to statesmen because they ARE statesmen and therefore leaders of their age. It's rarely applied to waiters or toilet cleaners, simply because of their lowly position. So a phrase like that is self-selective in who it gets applied to. A kind of self-fulfilling prophecy without a kernel of truth because we never see the born leaders who never led.

In my mind, I wasn't born a great writer but I am determined to succeed and to improve on all the various threads that make a successful writer. I work hard at it. Refining sentences, sweating over the right word. Learning from my mistakes. Edit and edit. And combine it with perseverance.

I once asked an author if an idea I had had been done before. He didn't even want to hear the idea to compare it, he knew my writing style and told me that even if it had been done before, he thought I could tell it in such a way as to make it mine.

For me it isn't the story you devise. All the tales-to-be-told have been told ad nauseum since the writers of the Classical era created the archetypes. What matters is HOW you tell that story and what you choose to focus on within it.

That is the really unique unteachable part because it relies on the writer's experiences. This is just my own opinion. I'll go stand at the back of the room now, and look shifty.

Quote: SlagA @ February 14, 2008, 6:50 PM

Robin Kelly is spot on, imo. If you can't teach a monkey to write then why all the uni courses on creative writing etc?

A phrase like 'born leader' is normally only applied retrospectively to statesmen because they ARE statesmen and therefore leaders of their age. It's rarely applied to waiters or toilet cleaners, simply because of their lowly position. So a phrase like that is self-selective in who it gets applied to. A kind of self-fulfilling prophecy without a kernel of truth because we never see the born leaders who never led.

In my mind, I wasn't born a great writer but I am determined to succeed and to improve on all the various threads that make a successful writer. I work hard at it. Refining sentences, sweating over the right word. Learning from my mistakes. Edit and edit. And combine it with perseverance.

I once asked an author if an idea I had had been done before. He didn't even want to hear the idea to compare it, he knew my writing style and told me that even if it had been done before, he thought I could tell it in such a way as to make it mine.

For me it isn't the story you devise. All the tales-to-be-told have been told ad nauseum since the writers of the Classical era created the archetypes. What matters is HOW you tell that story and what you choose to focus on within it.

That is the really unique unteachable part because it relies on the writer's experiences. This is just my own opinion. I'll go stand at the back of the room now, and look shifty.

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Well put Slag. As usual I can't add much when you've entered the forum, but still, writing like any "talent" or "gift" has to be worked on or it will just cease to work for you.

Though I agree that anyone can be taught to write to some degree, I do believe absolutely that some people are just naturally more gifted as writers and will generate more and better ideas than your bog standard writer. You can work at it and improve, but some will just be naturally brilliant.

You can't take just anyone and make them a good writer. You can improve them, sure, but if you can mentor someone who's not very good until the cows come home and they'll still never be the best.

No matter how much I practice I'd never be as good a footballer as Steven Gerrard, for example. I currently am learning to play the piano - I will never be as good as Ben Folds though.

ANY creatives are born, not made - but you have to work on the talent to get somewhere.

On the subject of talent etc, I KNOW I am a bloody genius. Trouble is I'd rather clean out the cellar or pick my nose than actually get stuff written down and made into International hit TV shows.

There is a serious point to this - most producers etc would rather have 'decent' stuff produced on time and to an acceptable standard than the occasional piece of genius turned out whenever the writer felt like it. Hard work does seem to be the way to go - which is a bugger for someone as lazy as me.

Wow a thread discussing Stephen King how could I miss out on this, I'm his number one fan. Worth remembering that Christine his 4th attempt at being publsihed was picked up by a female editor, who just fancied publishing a book that featured menstruation (true story). if you like that try Dance Macabre, it's even better, and he wrote when he was still drunk, and funny. Also he wrote the Bachman books under a pseudonym and they all tanked. Luck has a lot to do with it. Courses are a good idea, I reckon the Mark Blake course, shaved 6 months to a year off my writing career.