DaButt
Thursday 3rd March 2016 6:35pm [Edited]
The Lone Star State
14,707 posts
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 3rd March 2016, 8:52 AM GMT
We have UN, NATO and EU and basically any other nation which wants to join in and stop them, which virtually every decent country is against isil, force is necessary.
Sadly, NATO is quite weak without the United States. The UK, France, Germany and the Netherlands have fine fighting forces with good equipment, but they just don't have enough to take on Russia or China. They'd do ok in a small regional war, but they simply lack the capability to project force a substantial force over a large area or great distance.
Take the C-17 Globemaster, a state of the art, long-range transport aircraft, for example. The UK has 8, Australia has 8, Canada has 5 and NATO has 3. The United States has 223 C-17s.
Consider heavy bombers: the United States has 160, Russia has 124 and China has 120. The rest of the world has none.
Any major war involving Europe will require the use of American transport and refueling aircraft, bombers, fighters, tanks, satellites and intelligence assets.
Against Iran, China, Russia and N Korea things get very tricky if any leader talks about force against them. Diplomacy is the way here. Is Trump right for that vital role? 
Diplomacy is extremely important, but it's all a chess match. As it's been said many times before, Putin plays chess while Obama plays checkers. The only way to stop Putin and China from snatching up territory is to make them worried that they might get a military punch in the face.
Quote: Nick Nockerty @ 3rd March 2016, 8:54 AM GMT
Since the end of the second world war, America has been involved in around 23 or so Wars, China only a few. But America has been the main instigator in many of the largest wars since then, China none. The body count caused by American Wars massive, China's have mainly been cold wars so a minimal body count by comparison. Add to the fact China's international policy in this regards has never changed, i.e. It defends its borders (Taiwan & Tibet) but in general doesn't interfere outside of that.
First of all, the number 23 is misleading. I found the appropriate entry on Wikipedia, but it includes such obscure events as the Simba Rebellion and Shaba II which I'd never even heard of. Some of the actions involved nothing more than the use of a few transport aircraft and there were no shots fired by Americans -- that's hardly what I'd call a war. Also, I saw that the war in Afghanistan was broken up into two separate wars. As far as I'm concerned, it's been one long war.
If we consult the corresponding Wikipedia entries:
China: 17 post-WWII involvements
Russia/USSR: 22 involvements
UK: 27 involvements
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_Kingdom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China
China is not lacking in offensive efforts nor body counts. Their wars have cost millions of lives, and let's not forget that they were major instigators in both the Korean and Vietnam wars. They also managed to starve, execute and torture their own citizens to the tune of 30 or 40 million deaths. The Russians also murdered 5 or 10 million of their own citizens, so comparing the two to the United States is absurd.
It's America I fear, not China.
Past history is one thing, but we need to be worried about the present and future. The United States military and its influence is shrinking; we're drawing down around the world. How much of the territory that we've fought on over the last several decades have we conquered as our own? The answer is none. Where we've fought we've done our best to pacify and rebuild, often without much success. And the recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan would never have taken place had Saddam left office and the Taliban turned over bin Laden as requested.
Russia, on the other hand, has returned to its Cold War saber rattling and recently conquered and annexed Crimea. They're still fighting in Ukraine and they have their eyes on former USSR territories. And don't forget that they have stepped up their simulated nuclear bombing runs against The United States and Europe.
China has built manmade islands in the South China Sea and is rapidly equipping them with fighters, bombers and missiles. They will soon control the entire region. If I lived in Taiwan and Australia I'd be very worried. They also recently announced that they're building a military base in Africa and they're building aircraft carriers, so do not doubt their plans for further military expansion and aggression. They're militarizing space and conducting cyberattacks against the rest of the world. Anyone with half a brain should be worried about their future intentions.
You have no reason to fear the United States, but you have every reason to fear Russia and your brethren in Australia and New Zealand have every reason to fear China.
Quote: playfull @ 3rd March 2016, 9:16 AM GMT
Does anyone in America think that Trump would not use the Presidency to line his own pockets (a la Putin)?
I doubt that there is a single rational person who would think that way. Trump is already worth something like $4 billion. It would be virtually impossible for an American president to siphon or embezzle money in the way that Putin has. American presidents make their money after they leave office, commanding huge speaking fees and large payments for writing books. I don't like that it's even possible for them to do so, since those fees and donations often come with political favor requests attached. It's one thing for a retired president to make a pile of money, but when you have a candidate like Hillary who has been paid hundreds of millions of dollars and is poised to occupy the White House that it becomes a very dangerous issue.
