There is no money in submitting sketches, period. Even for the pros sketch shows are about kudos and getting their name out there, or just the opportunity to do what they got into the game for, rather than churning out pre-scripted ad libs for panel games.

Quote: Jaicee @ August 12 2013, 10:32 AM BST

I would rather go with the first ideas ... Hack something out quickly.

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Writing is about working on something you have written until it is as good as it can possibly be.

Writing is about working on a piece until you get it as good as it can possibly be.

Writing is about putting in the effort to get a piece as good as it can be.

Writing is about revising your work until it is the best if can be.

Writing is about rewriting until you get it right.

Writing is about rewriting

Writing is rewriting.

Quote: Tursiops @ August 16 2013, 4:45 PM BST

Writing is rewriting.

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Re:Write
Rewrite
Right?

I agree with Tursipos. I once read an interview with a professional writer and he said if you actually calculate all the hours spent writing and how much you earn, he was on about 4 pence an hour. You can't really think like that anyway 'cos you're brain's always on the go, you can't say, I just sat in the pub and toyed with an idea for 30 minutes, where's my paycheck then? The great thing about performing in Italy is often YOU pay to do it 'cos it's like being in a club.
I think John Byrne summed it up in 'Writing Comedy', which I never tire of recommending: Work yourself silly in the awareness you have an infintesimal chance. Or save yourself the effort and have zero chance. Up to you innit.

So it's not a business then?People make telly shows for the pleasure of it ,not for money , status etc?If you come across as too needy and desperate you will be walked over.Simple as that.It's all about economics. Try writing a sketch that requires costumes and sets and chances are it will be deemed to expensive to do whether it's a work of genius or not.Why do you think they like 2 idiots talking across a desk or in a pub?It's cheap to produce.Why do they like running gags (I see they're very keen on them for 2525) in sketch shows?Cheap to produce.Do them all in the one day.By all means enjoy your writing but remember somebody may be making money off you so don't give it away for nothing.

Not at all. I should have been kinder and more precise. The Smoking Room had a large core cast to allow for people popping in for a fag and popping out again, as well as guest actors in most episodes. The set, comprising the room and a corridor outside, was quite large and built in a studio. It required special extractors to remove the smoke between takes. It sometimes employed two cameras, and needed two costume people and two make up people, sometimes three. There was a designer, art director and set-dresser and a normal crew. Each episode was a five-day shoot, which is standard for a single camera show, though they can sometimes be six-day weeks. Studio hire isn't cheap, and of course there was catering every day. Add in the costs of post-production, and it all equates to the price of a normal, mid-range single camera show.

Come on you Reds indeed."

I hope Micheal Jacobs (probably BCGs most accomplished member) doesn't mind me quoting this inspirational quote. On the folly of trying to over guess the production process as a writer.
(this was based on someone saying The Smoking Room looked like an economic shoot)

Besides this is a radio script, so blow planets up, have an army of robots a million feet tall.

It'll all be done by some technician with empty brown paper bags and a dustbin.

On my screen writing course, I did a very ambitious horror/comedy script involving a giant kitchen filled with evil chefs.
The tutor scratched his chin and said you can do that on a PC with a basic program, if the scripts good enough who cares?

Check out Bussell, Stott, Ricketts et al for how to do that.

Given that 2525 is for the radio I am not sure cost of sets is a consideration in the preference for runners...

But congratulations Jaicee, showing an understanding of production cost constraints is the closest you have come to demonstrating a knowledge of what professionalism means in this business.

Does anyone remember the Wrong Door when the BBC test drove CGI technology in sketch shows?

Weird show, had more fx than Dr Who,

And fewer jokes.

ooh cutting, it tied with Hyper Drive and Clone for the worst of those recent BBC scifi comedy shows.

No I still shudder at Clone; it was like it was written by someone who had heard of the concept of comedy but had never actually seen any.

I think that might win diss of the day

Quote: Jaicee @ August 17 2013, 10:09 AM BST

So it's not a business then?People make telly shows for the pleasure of it ,not for money , status etc?

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I'm sure some do it primarily for the money, but I wouldn't be so surprised that a lot of people do it mainly for the pleasure. It's difficult to become a scriptwriter; it's competitive. But it's living the dream. I mean, come on, it's not a "real" job. I don't mean it's not difficult, it's just that you're essentially doing something you already do for the love of it and you're getting paid. No more day-jobs. I would turn down a job that would pay a lot more to do it.

I think balance is needed. You shouldn't do everything for free because firstly the people who are offering nothing are usually shit and your work won't be seen very widely anyway; and secondly it's not fair not to be compensated if someone else is making money off of it. If, however, someone came up with something I thought was really interesting and they needed writing to achieve it I'd do it for free. I've done that for some local directors who have really cool ideas and no money, for instance. Sometimes you do things just because you're interested, right?

But on the other hand, if you're trying to get into writing (as I said, a difficult task) and you concern yourself too much with the money you could miss out on opportunities to be seen by people with good ideas that you'd enjoy working on. Or to have your name banded about, which is the way towards the money anyway. Lastly, like I said, scriptwriters are the lucky ones. Go into any other art. Any other. You will not get paid. Signed bands go on tour from their own pockets, artists get f**k all, prose writers are usually pretty poor, stand-up comedy gets you into debt. Scriptwriters, generally, actually get paid. And I'm pretty happy to be given £40 for a period of time in which I mostly sat around daydreaming around ideas, and then briefly typed some words.

Great post.
Script writing, once you pay for analysis and reading can be pricey.

And confident is the writer who never pays for any professional analysis.

I think people forget sitcom costs £250,000 an episode, with radio budgets are so comensurately low the cost is the same.
So with big sums, any organisation goes for predictable and safe.

But you write, because you can't not write.

The Wrong Door and Lab Rats were damn awful. Never saw Clone thankfully.

Anyway, I have two sketches written for this now and have another to rewrite. Hopefully I can come up with a few more ideas before the deadline.

Have done one sketch so far, that will need going back to, loads of ideas floating around but finding it hard to form them into something usable.