Well maybe if you did the BBC would give you a series. I personally thought this was one of the finest comedies i've seen in years. I have to go back to The Office for something with such brilliantly observed characters and performances. My only problem is that it's on BBC3? It seems odd when it's such a cut above everything on 1 or 2. Only Peep show for me stands up against it.

Slag, in answer to your concerns about the vague half sheet of A4 paper being a wedding about nothing, i heard both Gavin and Stacey writer on the Fred Mcauley show on monday and they said they wanted to make a tv film about a wedding but in with the proposal they put a back story of how the leads characters met and stuff. It seems it was this that the BBC saw "genius" in. I had never heard of the bloke writer before so i would hardly call them known writers. Oh and by the way, i just watched ep 3 online and thought it was incredible. Best thing Rob Brydon has ever done.

I don't want to divide the forum down the lines of comedy audience and prospective comedy writers but when you do something (or try to) you get to know how it's done, so when I watch this show along with the Slags and Martin Holmes (and others) we see that the writers have made simple, lazy choices. They also cannot write jokes – there are none – only 'funny' scenes. Some of the humour also relys on the fact that Ruth Jones is fat. I mean, christ.

Hi Josh,
I meant that they were reasonably well known names within the 'Biz'. Sadly, it seems if an actor fancies his hand at writing, he has instant platform that gives him an unfair edge over other novices.

Takeabow said that the last mainstream show to be commissioned from real unknowns was apparently Operation Goodguys, way back. That's sobering.

I don't know about the others, but one of the writers of Operation Goodguys was Ray Burdis, who was already an established actor, although not as big as Ruth Jones (See, I can do fat jokes as well) so it wasn't written by unknowns either.

I thought it was great, and I was getting at people earlier who had been slagging it off because many were doing it without having even seen it! Theyd 'heard things' or seen clips, and on the basis of that were running the show down, which is just idiotic. Personally I dont think the writing was lazy, it was spot on, and very funny. And I do think that a lot of people take a delight in running shows down, every comedy has to be a stone cold classic or it seems to be deemed a failure, I dont think any other genre of TV is judged so harshly, so black and white-ly.

Quote: Godot Taxis @ May 18, 2007, 3:08 AM

... the writers have made simple, lazy choices. They also cannot write jokes – there are none – only 'funny' scenes. Some of the humour also relys on the fact that Ruth Jones is fat. I mean, christ.

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But a comedy is meant to be funny. It doesn't necessarily need jokes (although I don't agree for a moment that there were none) to make it funny. Look at The Office. People seem to love that so much that they'd sleep with Ricky Gervais, but is there an actual joke anywhere in the show? (As opposed to bad jokes told by the characters as part of the story.) Not from what I've seen there aren't.
And whether the choices were extensively considered or "simple [and] lazy", that doesn't detract from their value to the audience. If it's funny, it's funny. If it's not, it's not. Evidently some of us here find it funny, and some don't. Doesn't make "simple [and] lazy" bad.
As for basing jokes on Jones's size, again, if it works it works. Evidently the writers, commisioners, script editors, etc etc - and yes, myself - thought that it did. There's nothing wrong with it. It's just a different level and kind of humour, and one which you evidently don't go for.

Quote: Matthew Stott @ May 18, 2007, 5:00 PM

Personally I dont think the writing was lazy, it was spot on, and very funny. And I do think that a lot of people take a delight in running shows down, every comedy has to be a stone cold classic or it seems to be deemed a failure, I dont think any other genre of TV is judged so harshly, so black and white-ly.

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Hear, hear!

You guys obviously aren't familiar with the internet then. Every genre of TV gets judged harshly by its main critics, if your a movie buff there will be a forum out there judging every new movie just as harshly, same goes for drama's, documentaries etc.

This is a comedy forum so expect comedy to be judged.

Quote: Aaron @ May 18, 2007, 5:05 PM

Look at The Office. People seem to love that so much that they'd sleep with Ricky Gervais, but is there an actual joke anywhere in the show? (As opposed to bad jokes told by the characters as part of the story.)

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Aaron, as you know I'm not a huge Gervais fan, but I wouldn't argue that he can't write. And there are lots of jokes in the Office. Since you asked, here's a joke from the first scene of the first episode.

BRENT: (Into phone)
I'm seeing you Sunday aren't I? –
For my sins... How is Elaine?
She left you yet? Yeah... Alright, see you then...

HE PUTS PHONE DOWN AND GRITS TEETH

BRENT:
She has left him, I forgot about that.

-----------------------------------

Why I think G & S is lazy – look at the scene in the first episode where Stacey receives advice from the old woman in the street. The old woman says something like 'don't let him go too far, a kiss and a cuddle, that's all...' And you just know that the next line is going to be something like 'Don't let him bum you' or 'don't suck him off' and it is! Because the people who wrote it think that it would be hilarious if an old person said something crude and unlikely. In fact it was totally expected. That's what I mean about lazy writing.

That's not a joke as such though is it.

It's funny though because of the situations.

That is a joke, it has as set up and a punchline. But yeah The Office doesn't have a lot of jokes, hence why it is not "high quality comedy" its just a pretty good comedy in recent times.

Punch line? Where?

But that's not to say I don't think it's funny. It is one of the best sitcoms of the last few years.

I don't think a good comedy has to contain a lot of jokes or been defined by how good it is by the jokes. To me a well written comedy is something with good character development, making you care about the characters and believe anything they say.

Jokes and Situations are important to make it recognisable as a comedy, but joke and situations can happen to anyone.

Quote: Godot Taxis @ May 18, 2007, 7:02 PM

Aaron, as you know I'm not a huge Gervais fan, but I wouldn't argue that he can't write.

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I didn't either (well I didn't then anyway). That's my point. A show doesn't have to have a lot of jokes to be good. As long as it's funny, it's funny. Doesn't matter how the funny comes about.

The seen with the old lady actually actually says,"well no not nothing, a kiss, a cuddle, a cheeky finger just don't go selling him the whole farm!"
For me that was a laugh out loud line. So did the Times who gave it 5 stars, the metro who gave it 5 stars and the bbc who have already recommisioned it. I truly think this could be the best new series since phoenix nights.

I meant to say sCene! Sorry it's late x

Okay, well some of you are thinking of a joke as 'how do you get four giraffes into a mini?' Very few sitcoms contain this kind of humour. Their jokes are like the one I quoted from the office.

An example of a joke from Gavin and Stacey is Ruth Jones saying have you seen my thong, and the chubby lad turning up wearing it. This is also a very lazy and hackneyed joke, but this sitcom appears to be the new home of feeble, overused gags.

What about that one of Alison Steadman's knickers on the radiator being mistaken for bedsheets? I had to mop the floor after that one...