Quote: Tony Cowards @ August 11 2011, 12:52 PM BST

All the acts on the show, as far as I'm aware, make their living from being professional comedians so the are all capable of doing it to "a reasonable level", at least according to the people who pay them.

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It might be appropriate to look some up and go and see them in their 'comfort zone'.
I've recently been made redundant and through the internal redeployment scheme was entered on to a 6 week trial of a role outside of my comfort zone.
2 weeks in to the trial and it was curtailed by the manager in charge as I was 'outside of my comfort zone'! Or, I was crap at the job!
This analagy vaguely supports what others have been saying I suppose.
So why did I bring it up?!!

I still feel that a confident and professional stand-up should be able to write for and perform reasonably to the vast majority of audiences put before them and in the case of SMTF they are more likely to be 'friendly' than otherwise.

Quote: garyd @ August 11 2011, 1:14 PM BST

I still feel that a confident and professional stand-up should be able to write for and perform reasonably to the vast majority of audiences put before them and in the case of SMTF they are more likely to be 'friendly' than otherwise.

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Put Bill Hicks, Stewart Lee, Tim Vine or whoever in front of the wrong audience and they'll die on their hole, does it make them "bad" comedians? No, of course not.

I don't see why the audiences in these shows are "more likely to be friendly", the whole thing is out of context, they're not in a regular comedy club and the audience know that effectively they are judging a reality show, I would think that the atmosphere is more akin to a Gong Show than a normal comedy night.

To me, this show is like judging a footballer by his performance in "Superstars", yes the show tests some similar skills to the ones they use in their "day job" but to continue the analogy, Kevin Keegan's inability to ride a bike didn't make him a bad footballer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEuOPLtcY9A

Quote: Tony Cowards @ August 11 2011, 1:20 PM BST

Put Bill Hicks, Stewart Lee, Tim Vine or whoever in front of the wrong audience and they'll die on their hole, does it make them "bad" comedians? No, of course not.

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I can't really disagree, generally. But what I wonder might constitute a 'wrong' audience?

Quote: Tony Cowards @ August 11 2011, 1:20 PM BST

I don't see why the audiences in these shows are "more likely to be friendly", the whole thing is out of context, they're not in a regular comedy club and the audience know that effectively they are judging a reality show, I would think that the atmosphere is more akin to a Gong Show than a normal comedy night.

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They are their free of charge and IMHO, like other 'talent' show audiences, are far more likely to be caught up in a mass sympathetic outlook towards the contestants.

Quote: Tony Cowards @ August 11 2011, 1:20 PM BST

To me, this show is like judging a footballer by his performance in "Superstars", yes the show tests some similar skills to the ones they use in their "day job" but to continue the analogy, Kevin Keegan's inability to ride a bike didn't make him a bad footballer.

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Bilmey, you're that old too!

Quote: garyd @ August 11 2011, 1:33 PM BST

They are their free of charge and IMHO, like other 'talent' show audiences, are far more likely to be caught up in a mass sympathetic outlook towards the contestants.

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Free shows tend to be the hardest to play as the audience haven't invested anything in the night.

Anyway, I've no idea why I'm defending my fellow stand ups on a show that I'm not even watching.

Tony,
I watched a documentary on stand up last night and it was said that comics only truly know what they're doing after seven years on stage.

You're about seven or so years in. What are your thoughts on this?

Quote: Jack Daniels @ August 11 2011, 3:11 PM BST

Tony,
I watched a documentary on stand up last night and it was said that comics only truly know what they're doing after seven years on stage.

You're about seven or so years in. What are your thoughts on this?

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Which doc? I've heard a lot of American comics say they only fully developed their persona at the ten year mark, which is somewhat depressing to hear when, like me, you were dumb enough not to start until the age of 34.

Oh, and I'd like to say that I'm with Tony and Nat on the side of this debate. Whoever made the "first draft" remark had the best analogy I think as it's something writer/non comics can relate to. No matter how good a writer you are, how would you feel about putting your first pass in the hands of your audience? No critique, no redrafts, just send that sucker straight to the prod co and hope for the best.

Quote: Jack Daniels @ August 11 2011, 3:11 PM BST

Tony,
I watched a documentary on stand up last night and it was said that comics only truly know what they're doing after seven years on stage.

You're about seven or so years in. What are your thoughts on this?

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I've heard people say 5, 7 and 10 years, personally I was doing stand up for about 5-6 years before I had an epiphany and started doing what I wanted to do and to use the corny expression, found my voice (in my case, literally, as I've almost developed into a character act with an accent which helps my stage persona), until that point I doing material which was perfectly serviceable but my heart wasn't really in it.

Obviously different people develop at different rates but I would certainly say that it takes a good number of years to truly know what you are doing and to have a good idea of how to handle most circumstances you are likely to encounter on stage.

Quote: David Bussell @ August 11 2011, 3:21 PM BST

Which doc? I've heard a lot of American comics say they only fully developed their persona at the ten year mark, which is somewhat depressing to hear when, like me, you were dumb enough not to start until the age of 34.

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Christ, I thought you were about 21.

It was an American point of view. It was the bonus disc on Judd Apatow's film: Funny People, (good film) there's loads of extras and a long video diaries doc with a good section on stand up. Because they made the actors perform loads of stand up sets, they talk to the owner of the improv and to various comedians who cameo in the film and footage from the gigs, onstage/backstage.

I've turned 30, that's why I thought it seemed a hell of a long time to pay your dues as surely it depends on how often you perform vs how long you've been at it. There's been loads who were good fresh out of the traps.

May just be a US school of thought though.

But, in regards to screenwriting, when I first submitted stuff at 18 I was told it takes about ten years to get really good, I thought that was bullshit, but it hindsight, seems true.

Quote: Tony Cowards @ August 11 2011, 3:34 PM BST

I've heard people say 5, 7 and 10 years, personally I was doing stand up for about 5-6 years before I had an epiphany and started doing what I wanted to do and to use the corny expression, found my voice (in my case, literally, as I've almost developed into a character act with an accent which helps my stage persona), until that point I doing material which was perfectly serviceable but my heart wasn't really in it.

Obviously different people develop at different rates but I would certainly say that it takes a good number of years to truly know what you are doing and to have a good idea of how to handle most circumstances you are likely to encounter on stage.

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wow. that's insightful and intresting, thanks, time to book my comedy store 2018 headline gig.

Quote: Jack Daniels @ August 11 2011, 3:38 PM BST

I've turned 30, that's why I thought it seemed a hell of a long time to pay your dues as surely it depends on how often you perform vs how long you've been at it. There's been loads who were good fresh out of the traps.

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I started doing comedy when I was 30 and it's taken me 8 years to get to the point where I'm making a living doing it.

There's a theory that it takes 10,000 hours to become a genius at anything, so if you can put in the time (not just gigging but writing, practicing, etc) I guess you can do it in 10 years if you devote 2.5 hours per day to comedy.

Quote: Tony Cowards @ August 11 2011, 3:42 PM BST

I started doing comedy when I was 30 and it's taken me 8 years to get to the point where I'm making a living doing it.

There's a theory that it takes 10,000 hours to become a genius at anything, so if you can put in the time (not just gigging but writing, practicing, etc) I guess you can do it in 10 years if you devote 2.5 hours per day to comedy.

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Well I've read the hundreds of great reviews comedians have to say about you on the other website, so if I can use 38 as a target for greatness, that's good enough for me. Assuming I'm not already a filmmaking icon by that point.

(in truth, I'll be prob still be here, on 779'541 posts)

Personally I couldn't have done stand up before I reached my 30s as I didn't have the confidence or the life experience.

I don't think Rhod Gilbert started until he was about 31 or 32 and he hasn't done too bad for himself.

Quote: Tony Cowards @ August 11 2011, 4:02 PM BST

I don't think Rhod Gilbert started until he was about 31 or 32 and he hasn't done too bad for himself.

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I think Greg Davies was in his mid-thirties when he started.

It's reasuring to know things like this because, as a hopeful writer/ filmmaker about 12 years in, I spend every day thinking 'I'm too old' I'm really bothered by it. Not to old to do it, obviously, but too old to get a foot in the door, as if my opportunities are wasted. The more you learn, the narrower the timeslot for devotion to art gets. Double edged sword.

The most frightening sentence on earth to me is;
"If you were going to make it, you would've made it by now"
This keeps me intensely awake at nights.

Back in the day I gave myself 30 as the target for having a studio/ or decent independently financed feature film. And yet here I still am. No more a writer than anyone else clutching a spec script trawling FAQs on the 'net.

Surely you get the audience you're given and work with it the best you can? A stand up in the 'real world' doesn't know the age/background of their audience so can't plan ahead (broadly speaking but there are exceptions), but these people on SMTF do know exactly who they are playing to.

Quote: TopBanana @ August 11 2011, 5:31 PM BST

Surely you get the audience you're given and work with it the best you can? A stand up in the 'real world' doesn't know the age/background of their audience so can't plan ahead (broadly speaking but there are exceptions), but these people on SMTF do know exactly who they are playing to.

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Difficult to do in 5 minutes as you've barely got time to get a feel for the audience.

In a 20 minute set you can struggle for the first 5 then get them, storm it for 15 minutes and no-one remembers the groping around at the beginning.