I'd rather never get another acting job again than keep quiet about something I feel is important.
And that is the penalty for so many that speak up.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Graham Linehan Page 9
You should copyright that Stephen, could be a famous quotation in years to come. I have to agree with this thread (of thought), cancel culture is a nasty form of coercive control and bullying, and it's spreading like a plague in professions where there are a lot of left leaning liberals, surprise surprise, education, healthcare, TV and entertainment.
'If you don't share our consensus of opinions then you can't work in our industry'. And it's now started a counter cancel culture from the right with pro Palestine commenters being sacked and barred from some institutions. It's got way out of hand.
I blame the internet.
Quote: Chappers @ 29th October 2023, 9:52 AMI blame the internet.
Quote: Billy Bunter @ 7th February 2022, 5:28 PMThe World would be a far better - and safer & less confrontational - place if it never had been invented.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 29th October 2023, 8:55 AMYou should copyright that Stephen, could be a famous quotation in years to come. I have to agree with this thread (of thought), cancel culture is a nasty form of coercive control and bullying, and it's spreading like a plague in professions where there are a lot of left leaning liberals, surprise surprise, education, healthcare, TV and entertainment.
'If you don't share our consensus of opinions then you can't work in our industry'. And it's now started a counter cancel culture from the right with pro Palestine commenters being sacked and barred from some institutions. It's got way out of hand.
It doesn't even have to be specifically pro-Palestinian, just a concern that thousands of civilians are being slaughtered is enough to get you targeted.
Hildegard, I can't seem to quote your last post for some reason but in it you state:
"Statistics show that trans is the safest demographic in the UK so I'd be really interested in seeing if/how that's changed so I can make sure I'm up to date".
I know you're not trolling with that statement but you must be on a different planet to believe it or your stats fail to include a few basic variables such as population ratio or number of attacks that go un-reported. When so many people around you take issue with your views maybe it's not them who needs educating. Just a thought.
On that bombshell let's both get back to Linehan and avoid the whole gender debacle. Putting morals above a pay cheque is fine if you can afford to do that but professionals don't have that choice and unless it's about something deeply personal like family or possibly faith I can't see any reason to throw a spanner in the works amongst people in the industry over what is a non-story. It's all hyped up by the gutter press and social media like Twitter. A few people react to a comment on twitter and the next day the red tops have headlines like "twitter storm over comments" "Fury over insensitive comments" and it snowballs from there. Possibly by people with nothing better to do and no real understanding mixed with those directly involved and affected like transgender people who wake up every day well aware they are in a minority group and are encountering discrimination at every turn. Like I said we can have differing opinions over this without it coming down to who is right or wrong but the fact is, and to keep it on topic for the thread, el Graham made a mistake and while I wouldn't wish what has happened to him on anyone he only has himself to answer to. It's not like he's murdered anyone and I hope he does bounce back because there is no denying he's one of the biggest comedy writing talents in the world not just Ireland or the UK. It's not fair what's happened to him but that's a risk with well known celebs using social media and why many choose to go no-where near them. There's always someone waiting to try and topple you and in the showbiz industry it could be your co-star. In any profession some colleagues will be your best friend but are secretly waiting in the proverbial wings hoping you slip up and being ready to hammer a nail in. I'm not saying don't speak up I'm saying speak up but for best results do it wisely and tactfully.
Quote: Definitely Tarby @ 29th October 2023, 2:08 PMHildegard, I can't seem to quote your last post for some reason but in it you state:
"Statistics show that trans is the safest demographic in the UK so I'd be really interested in seeing if/how that's changed so I can make sure I'm up to date".
I know you're not trolling with that statement but you must be on a different planet to believe it or your stats fail to include a few basic variables such as population ratio or number of attacks that go un-reported. When so many people around you take issue with your views maybe it's not them who needs educating. Just a thought.
On that bombshell let's both get back to Linehan and avoid the whole gender debacle. Putting morals above a pay cheque is fine if you can afford to do that but professionals don't have that choice and unless it's about something deeply personal like family or possibly faith I can't see any reason to throw a spanner in the works amongst people in the industry over what is a non-story. It's all hyped up by the gutter press and social media like Twitter. A few people react to a comment on twitter and the next day the red tops have headlines like "twitter storm over comments" "Fury over insensitive comments" and it snowballs from there. Possibly by people with nothing better to do and no real understanding mixed with those directly involved and affected like transgender people who wake up every day well aware they are in a minority group and are encountering discrimination at every turn. Like I said we can have differing opinions over this without it coming down to who is right or wrong but the fact is, and to keep it on topic for the thread, el Graham made a mistake and while I wouldn't wish what has happened to him on anyone he only has himself to answer to. It's not like he's murdered anyone and I hope he does bounce back because there is no denying he's one of the biggest comedy writing talents in the world not just Ireland or the UK. It's not fair what's happened to him but that's a risk with well known celebs using social media and why many choose to go no-where near them. There's always someone waiting to try and topple you and in the showbiz industry it could be your co-star. In any profession some colleagues will be your best friend but are secretly waiting in the proverbial wings hoping you slip up and being ready to hammer a nail in. I'm not saying don't speak up I'm saying speak up but for best results do it wisely and tactfully.
Who's being patronising now? 
Ok, you've failed to answer any of my questions and failed to provide any evidence to back your opinion up. You say the stats that do exist are wrong (good grief).
Lots of people claim to disagree with my beliefs but many many more have contacted me to say they agree with me. Every single one of them too scared to speak out in public but thanking me for doing so. Whenever daylight is shone on this issue it becomes clear the general public veer more towards my point of view.
Anyway, seeing as this interaction has been nothing but me providing back up for my beliefs and you just saying I'm wrong with absolutely nothing to prove it, I consider this a massive waste of time. Hopefully someone has picked some info they were unaware of.
I find it deeply worrying that you keep saying that people need to keep quiet about injustice to avoid being adversely affected. It's quite a terrifying point of view really. Personally I couldn't work with a homophobic, misogynist, no more than I could work with a racist. It saddens me to know that people will just turn a blind eye. It's how Saville and Weinstein got away with it. Well done.
But the paradox of that extreme is you are essentially cancelling yourself from that line of work. What I'm arguing for is for people with opposing views to have their say in private and still work in the same industry. There will have to be some level of pragmatic compromise at some point or you'd never be able to work with anyone. Maybe that's why there are so many homeworkers now.
Quote: Hildegard @ 29th October 2023, 5:39 PMI find it deeply worrying that you keep saying that people need to keep quiet about injustice to avoid being adversely affected. It's quite a terrifying point of view really. Personally I couldn't work with a homophobic, misogynist, no more than I could work with a racist. It saddens me to know that people will just turn a blind eye. It's how Saville and Weinstein got away with it. Well done.
I think in both cases there were plenty of whistle blowers but the industry itself didn't want the bad publicity, so it was the bods employing them who turned the blind eye to the voices of concerned colleagues and victims.
And of course there were plenty of others who knew about it but didn't want to lose their jobs, self preservation is a very strong instinct.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 29th October 2023, 5:58 PMBut the paradox of that extreme is you are essentially cancelling yourself from that line of work. What I'm arguing for is for people with opposing views to have their say in private and still work in the same industry. There will have to be some level of pragmatic compromise at some point or you'd never be able to work with anyone. Maybe that's why there are so many homeworkers now.
I think in both cases there were plenty of whistle blowers but the industry itself didn't want the bad publicity, so it was the bods employing them who turned the blind eye to the voices of concerned colleagues and victims.
And of course there were plenty of others who knew about it but didn't want to lose their jobs, self preservation is a very strong instinct.
But I didn't cancel myself, the baying mob who demand 100% capitulation did. The irony is the agent who dumped me because I refused to recant and bow at the altar of a religion I don't believe in, actually shared my point of view. And why isn't the "keep quiet to keep your job" mantra being applied to the other side? Why aren't they being told to keep their views to themselves?
Anyway, it didn't stop me getting another agent and some TV work but I'll never be in Dr Who, let's just put it that way. The tide is turning and more and more people are starting to speak out and the stranglehold they have on the arts is slowly relaxing. Fingers crossed it won't be long now.
TV work isn't the be all and end all of acting and if it means compromising on something I feel really strongly about I'll find other ways. I'm a trained award-winning fine artist, I'll go back to that. I'm almost finished training to be a comedy screenwriter, I'll write my own work. I can make my own films, put on my own theatre shows, I'm not pinning everything on an industry populated by people that lack backbone and integrity 
I hope Linehan gets justice and that one day the people who were too scared to stand by him, despite agreeing with him, get their just desserts and find themselves on the outside looking in. And I hope that's soon.
Good luck with that because from my limited past experience in the performing arts it is very very inclined towards co-working and hates those who think they can do it all on their own. Typically shy and awkward writers are just tolerated but often sneered at and complained about privately for not wanting to be part of the process, especially if they object to changes in their scripts.
It's said to be a major reason why there's a relatively large number of script writing duos here or the increasing number of US style writer rooms/teams because they have that added confidence of taking on the production cliques and are viewed as team workers in their own field rather than a solo idealist they're less accepting of. And is of course the reason for the ever increasing number of writer-performers at the expense of the nearly extinct nonperforming solo writer. It's all very cliquey and exclusive as you no doubt know.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 29th October 2023, 8:18 PMGood luck with that because from my limited past experience in the performing arts it is very very inclined towards co-working and hates those who think they can do it all on their own. Typically shy and awkward writers are just tolerated but often sneered at and complained about privately for not wanting to be part of the process, especially if they object to changes in their scripts.
It's said to be a major reason why there's a relatively large number of script writing duos here or the increasing number of US style writer rooms/teams because they have that added confidence of taking on the production cliques and are viewed as team workers in their own field rather than a solo idealist they're less accepting of. And is of course the reason for the ever increasing number of writer-performers at the expense of the nearly extinct nonperforming solo writer. It's all very cliquey and exclusive as you no doubt know.
Where did I say I can do it all on my own? I've got links to production companies, other actors, the local school of film and television, theatre directors etc...
You don't get to 58, after a lifetime in the arts, without collecting contacts and being part of communities. It's TV that's the problem and I can survive without it. I recently dropped my agent, for reasons I won't go into here, and am taking my time to find another one to make sure it's the right one. It'll be fine and even if it's not that'll be fine too. There's always something to be doing.
Quote: Hildegard @ 29th October 2023, 8:56 PMWhere did I say I can do it all on my own?
Well tbh here -
Quote: Hildegard @ 29th October 2023, 6:46 PMI can make my own films, put on my own theatre shows, I'm not pinning everything on an industry populated by people that lack backbone and integrity
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 29th October 2023, 9:04 PMWell tbh here -
Sorry - don't understand. Anyway, this thread is about something totally different and I've derailed it enough. You can be an actor without casting directors, there are other things to do than TV. That's my point.
Have a nice evening
Oh, just seen your edit. I still don't understand though. I grew up in a community that does all those things for themselves. Doing it myself doesn't mean doing it alone, it means making the things happen. It's no different to what most stand ups do, they do it themselves. I can write a solo show, hire a director and book a tour. It's really not that difficult a concept, it's just very hard work. However, it's what I grew up being involved in so it isn't odd to me. I'm happy to discuss this elsewhere but this thread is going wayward.
Quote: Hildegard @ 29th October 2023, 5:39 PMWho's being patronising now?
Ok, you've failed to answer any of my questions and failed to provide any evidence to back your opinion up. You say the stats that do exist are wrong (good grief).
It saddens me to know that people will just turn a blind eye. It's how Saville and Weinstein got away with it. Well done.
You exclaim good grief but what stats? This is why I don't engage in online debate because it degrades in to this. To summarise....You said you have stats that demonstrate how transgender people have never been safer in the UK but conveniently didn't provide the source of those stats and now you're criticising me for questioning validity of stats you say you have but have not provided. You brought up stats without backing it up with actual stats and if you honestly believe that transgender are not a minority group and have never been safer from physical or verbal assault on UK streets then that's up to you but it's not an opinion I share and saying I believe there are stats that say otherwise doesn't compel me to spend time presenting them just for your satisfaction. News reports is enough for me. You're making a lot of assumptions about me and come across as a touch mean spirited by mentioning me in the same sentence as Saville and Weinstein with a sarcastic 'well done' like I contributed to their heinous crimes. You don't even know me and are prepared to make that kind of judgement about my character simply because I'm sharing my opinions on this thread and reacting to your outrageous comments about the trans community.
Edit: A quick google search returned these results in the top three. I trust these will suffice.
https://www.stophateuk.org/about-hate-crime/transgender-hate/
Well maybe I'm wrong to say it but while I agree with your argument on this, your rather dismissive tone at times is going to put some off agreeing with it when delivered another way it would, if I may be as bold as you, no offence. Oh, not to you Tarby, I don't agree with you at all. 🙂