Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ October 5 2012, 12:42 AM BST

Historically, all teenager fiddling is almost normal in some countries.

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Historically, eating your pets for dinner is almost normal in some countries too, doesn't mean we have to adopt the same practices or low standards.

Why would there be a mini rush to Gatwick? We have the highest teenage pregnancy rate in all of Europe.

Though I must admit, some of the non-jokey, non-ironic comments being left on this thread are making me very uncomfortable.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ October 5 2012, 12:47 AM BST

Though I must admit, some of the non-jokey, non-ironic comments being left on this thread are making me very uncomfortable.

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Join the club.

Quote: Pingl @ October 5 2012, 12:45 AM BST

Who gives a flying f**k what it was for, his knighthood needs to go. I think the honours system is a load of bollocks but if it is to have even a hint of credibility Savile's needs to be taken away.

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Don't get angry at me, I don't determine the honours system. He was given a knighthood for his charity work, which he did a lot of and was recognised for. Theoretically, we could go back and remove knighthoods from everyone who did evil, dodgy things. How far back in history would you like to go?

I'd probably take them all away but that's because I think it's bloody silly .

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ October 5 2012, 12:47 AM BST

Why would there be a mini rush to Gatwick? We have the highest teenage pregnancy rate in all of Europe.

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Yeah I forgot about that, maybe they're coming here instead.

Re Rantzen et al, there's a big difference between hearing rumours of ill goings on, and being now faced with an onslaught of first-hand testimonies of the most outrageous abuse. People like her, and Janet Street-Porter on Question Time, should neither be vilified nor feel any guilt for not reporting what they'd heard of peoples' reputations.

Those who should be ashamed, and may hopefully be named in some sort of inquiry, are those who were very much aware of what was going on, when it was going on, because they saw it and worked closely with Savile and his ilk, and then covered it up. The same extends to those who cover up for inappropriate behaviour today. I can't make any accusations of paedophilia, but let's not be under the misapprehension that this is all an issue of the past.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ October 5 2012, 12:52 AM BST

He was given a knighthood for his charity work, which he did a lot of and was recognised for.

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But it seems that his charity work was, at least in part, a front that allowed him access to the most vulnerable young people in society.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ October 5 2012, 12:52 AM BST

Don't get angry at me, I don't determine the honours system. He was given a knighthood for his charity work, which he did a lot of and was recognised for. Theoretically, we could go back and remove knighthoods from everyone who did evil, dodgy things. How far back in history would you like to go?

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Yea fair enough, I hate the honours system anyway. But it would be nice to see an example set, although getting rid of honours altogether would suit me better. I just find it amazing that we honour all these scumbags, but as you are always telling me I am a lefty pinko.

Quote: sootyj @ October 5 2012, 12:17 AM BST

Freddie Starr threatened to burn my house down.

TRUFAX.

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When was this?

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ October 5 2012, 12:30 AM BST

From what I understand, he was quite a powerful dude who had a lot of dirt on people.

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Chuckle. Not really, no. As hard as it is for it is for people to understand you have to accept that people thought differently years ago. The early 70s as I mentioned earlier was a far more permissive sexual climate than we have now.

Here's a picture of Sable Starr aged 14 at the birthday of Jimmy page with Robert Plant and the other Zeps in attendance. Also present is another 'famous' groupie Lori Maddox, also aged 14. A quick search of the net will tell you that Sable 'dated' Keith Richards, Johnny Thunders and apparently lost her virginity to Iggy Pop aged 13. Lori reputedly lost hers to David Bowie, also at 13.

Groupies don't carry birth certificates and musicians/entertainers don't ask to see them. People didn't expose Saville because in the music and entertainment industry that kind of behaviour was widespread and not that exceptional. It possibly still is. I don't go to nightclubs any more but when I did they were full of underage girls.

My earlier point is that the people we're seeing exposed for their sexual peccadillos are by-and-large eccentrics and 'artistes' who have fallen out of favour. As always the humbug of it upsets me greatly. If you're disgusted by the behaviour of Saville, then you're probably going to have to bootsale 80% of your CD collection.

Quote: Godot Taxis @ October 5 2012, 1:28 AM BST

If you're disgusted by the behaviour of Saville, then you're probably going to have to bootsale 80% of your CD collection.

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I don't think all the outrage is to do with the age of the girls. The way he got what he wanted was rape and abuse. Stories about Led Zeppelin, Bowie, etc would surface if they too were nasty pieces of work. I am not saying its right by any means but I think its a different kettle of fish.

What Bob says. Whatever moral judgements we make of these people today, there's clearly a world of difference between music groupies openly throwing themselves at a star, and another visiting care homes and arranging 'favours' in order to force himself upon girls.

Quote: Aaron @ October 5 2012, 3:25 AM BST

What Bob says. Whatever moral judgements we make of these people today, there's clearly a world of difference between music groupies openly throwing themselves at a star, and another visiting care homes and arranging 'favours' in order to force himself upon girls.

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I award Aaron the "Sootyj hit the nail on the head" award of the day.

Of course it raises the whole complex question of seduction and grooming.

But no one seems to have accused Led Zep of that, or even for that matter Jimmy Savile.

Somebody needs to do a very detailed clinical study of the accusations against Savile. As an example of what happens when a sociopathic, sexual predator has no restraints put on their behaviour.

Quote: Aaron @ October 5 2012, 3:25 AM BST

there's clearly a world of difference between music groupies openly throwing themselves at a star, and another visiting care homes and arranging 'favours' in order to force himself upon girls.

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Quite f**king right.

Quote: Godot Taxis @ October 5 2012, 1:28 AM BST

Groupies don't carry birth certificates and musicians/entertainers don't ask to see them. People didn't expose Saville because in the music and entertainment industry that kind of behaviour was widespread and not that exceptional. It possibly still is. I don't go to nightclubs any more but when I did they were full of underage girls.

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I was in and around bands for fun in the late 80s and by then tarty school girls were a no-no and a bit sad. And with plenty of women of your age group why would you anyway. It was seen as the domain of sleazy middle aged rockers and all a bit Spinal Tap.

Has anyone mentioned the second hand smoke from his cigars and the affect it had on all those kids around him?