Quote: Leevil @ July 10, 2007, 10:22 PM

There's no 'whooping' from the audience either, if that's what puts you off. I know it puts me off sometimes.

Frasier is literally a masterpiece. It's easily up there with all the great art works of cultured man, it just comes in the tacky televisual form, that is television.

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It did fall into the soppy trap on a few occasions (I actually really dislike the last few seasons) but those first 6 or so were a joy.

Yeah, whopping is the number one criticism from non-US comedy fans. They whooped on Seinfeld for Kramer's entrances early on but were told to stop - see they do EVERYTHING right!

Lol, I'm sure in the Sistine chapel, he went over the lines a few times. But I watch it on Paramount Comedy all the time and it's so easy to drop into, I absolutely love it, even after Niles got with Daphne, although that was wrong of them, but let's no got into that now

Yeah the audience whooping Kramer? Idiots, George is stood right next to him, I'll allow whooping for George, he deserves it.

Quote: Columbo @ July 10, 2007, 9:58 PM

LOL hang on! Do you know what paradox means? I guess not as you watch to much American comedy, try reading for a change, or watch the documentary channels! How can you say people are ignorant, then claim you have to tell them what to think! Erm, explain please lol!

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I didn't say tell them what to think, I said tell them straight that you are been small minded when it comes to comedy. A lot of my fave comedies are British, Fawlty Towers, The Day Today, Brass Eye and Alan Partridge. But American comedies such as Seinfeld, Curb Your Enthusiasm and Arrested Development can stand up to any of them. I get the feeling the only American comedies you've seen are Friends and shit like King Of Queens or other trash that's on Channel 4 in the mornings.

As for 'The Office' are you telling me Victoria Wood's comedy and Larry Sanders comedy are as well written, funny, scripted, cast, acted and believable?

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying as does Ricky Gervais I think he actually said Larry Sanders is his favourite comedy and it's obvious he is heavily influenced by it and yes it is a lot funnier, has better plots, better cast and extremely funny and can also write for celebrity cameo characters, unlike Gervais with Extras.

NOT EVEN THE AMERICAN CRITICS RECKON THAT THE US VERSION OF THE OFFICE IS BETTER THAN THE UK!!!! Oh and didn't they want Gervais to start in that version too? You're in a minority, so maybe you should listen more instead of pretending you know what you're talking about *yawn*!

A lot of the American critics and British critics applaud the US version for coming into its own and doing something different from the UK office.

I think it's pretty fair to assume that you will watch and love any American comedy rubbish they put on Sky television packages to fill up scheduling! Your arguments are about as weak as an American comedy!

Again you show your ignorance here. Most of the US comedies you seem to be talking about are stuff like Everybody Loves Raymond, Two and Half Men, King Of Queens, Coach and crap like that, I hate that stuff, it's tacky and unfunny. But you're missing out on classic and hilarious sitcoms like Arrested Development and Seinfeld. I'm begging you to watch a full series of one of those and then still come back with the same attitude.

King of Queens is good - Kevin James is very funny, and it's one of the only shows in the whole world where it's the woman is the unreasonable slightly mean bastard.

When it's good, it's worth a watch. And Jerry Stiller's in it, so it MUST be good.

Okay maybe I'm been a bit harsh on that, I've only seen a few episodes but didn't really get into it. Jerry Stiller is amazing though I agree, but I just always imagine him as Frank Costanza.

A man (or woman) after my own heart Columbo.

I cannot stand Friends. I cringe with total embarrassment when it's on - not like watching a Gervais thing because that's what it's about - but because it is sooooooooo bad! The artificialness and haha ness really aggravates me.

Try to keep the debate objective and don't get personal, I don't think words like ignorant or arrogant really help matters. Focus on the wider debate not on whether one person has a right or wrong opinion. Thank you.

Slow down people.

No one can claim to be more objective in their analysis than anyone else. Comedy is purely SUBJECTIVE. Even when we think we can look at it with distance and perspective. If it doesn't make you laugh it's not funny (to you) but if it makes someone else laugh it is funny (to them). How can you then tell them it isn't funny? You can't.

Remember, you are discussing OPINION not verifiable scientific fact.

SeeFacts makes an excellent point that the shows that cross the channel are biased in that they are the most successful but as comedy is subjective it doesn't always mean that everyone thinks they are funny. There will always be difference of opinion.

I can see Columbo's perspective because being brought up in the UK then USA shows will have a different slant and are sometimes harder to get. But I'm talking in generalities.

Keep the discussion to the shows. Avoid patronising or hot words such as 'ignorant' etc. And remember you will never persuade someone that a show is crap / good through argument because they see the show through THEIR eyes, and you see the show through YOUR eyes. An actor that makes a terrible Ben Harper / David Brent maybe seen by someone else as the perfect actor for that part and no amount of persuasion will shift them.

Share but remember that (when it comes to comedy) they are only opinions. Enjoy the fact that others see the world differently.

If, of course, you're discussing verifiable fact and have defined the mathematical formula for 'funny' then write a book on it and become a comedy god.

I love King of Queens too! It does take a bit to warm to the characters Martin but once you have it's great.
Give it more time! I can't say why I like it so much, it doesn't seem to have a knock out effect but it still gets me. Repeating myself, I think the success (in my eyes) comes from eventually being able to warm to main characters Doug Arthur and Carrie (mostly Doug and Arthur) on a big level. Well that's what's happened to me anyway. I just wish the UK could have more than the 8 episodes we get on repeat.

although i do like british comedys i do tend to prefer american sitcoms over the British. I love the classics like fawlty towers and only fools and horses but i don;t think the recent british comedys are very good. they all seem to be blah.

Quote: Leevil @ July 10, 2007, 10:22 PM

There's no 'whooping' from the audience either, if that's what puts you off. I know it puts me off sometimes.

Frasier is literally a masterpiece. It's easily up there with all the great art works of cultured man, it just comes in the tacky televisual form, that is television.

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I agree. Frasier's great; a masterpiece. Though Seasons 8-11 were very very bad indeed.

Why were they bad though? I disagree. Nothing changed from the jokes and setups, it just lost the Niles obsession over Daphne.

Ditto the King of Queens love here.

Well, not love. But you catch my drift.

As to the original post:
I think you have a valid point. You need to ask the library if they will buy whatever shows you'd like to see. But before that, you should check the catalog or ask a member of staff to check if any of the other libraries in your council area have what you're looking for. You can put a reserve on them and they will be delivered to your library. Your library might even ring you when they arrive.

It really is a farce to go into your British library and see the TV shelf full of anything but great British shows.

My Hero struck me as an American type of comedy. My Family did not simply because of the Nick character. He was anything but American. He was a British loon. The show is unwatchable without him.

I think both America and Britain have put out some excellent shows.

Quote: Leevil @ July 11, 2007, 4:20 PM

Why were they bad though? I disagree. Nothing changed from the jokes and setups, it just lost the Niles obsession over Daphne.

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There were bad episodes in Season 7 and an awful lot of awful episodes after that; I forgot it was a comedy really.

Bad/Awful episodes like:

Season 7:
There's Something About Dr Mary - When Frasier gets a producer who keeps inturrupting on his show and practically takes over.

Mamma Mia - Frasier's new girlfriend looks like his dead mother.

Niles takes botox.

Season 8:

Frasier's Edge - He has a mid-life crisis. Bad!

Frasier and Frederick go on holiday.

And basically the whole
"Daphne's overeating-when-we-really-know-she's-fat-because-she's-pregnant bit.

Season 9:

Everybody dresses up as there heroes and Frasier has a soppy chat with a kid.

All the Kirby episodes, all the Simon and Mrs Moon episodes, Roz dating a bin man and keeps going on about it long after that guest star has left.

Juniour Agent - Frasier has a new agent with a horrible voice that just grates!

Frederick has a spelling contest.

The radio show heads over to Spokane and Roz starts being tearful on air.

Season 10

Frasier steadfastly refuses to leave a car park because he doesn't want to pay and holds a one-man protest.

Roz's cousin with the awful voice.

Frederick's Bar Mitzvah.

Niles has open-heart sugery. Is this a comedy?

Frasier inadvertently sexually harresses the horrible new "lover interest" who keeps popping up all the time.

Lilith wants Frasier's sperm and Niles likes a close-up photograph of Daphne's nipple while Daphne, Roz, Mrs Moon and Roz's daughter do a re-make of the famous winnabago episode from Season 2 - only with no laughs and in a car.

Frasier helps build a house and obsesses about the decour after the family have moved in.

Roz leaves the radio show after a too-serious-for-a-sitcom argument with Frasier. No laughs, just shouts.

Season 11:

Everyone thinks Frasier is gay in a below-par re-make of The Matchmaker.

Martin's new girlfrind is introduced - she's not funny and is about fifty five with loads of plastic sugery done on her. Oh yeah, and her voice is awful.

Frasier goes out to dinner with a woman named Anne. Another one with a whiny, grating voice.

Frasier goes to SeaBea awards - and he has to sing Moon River with words about the SeaBeas.

And the worst one ever. Everybody goes to a log cabin for the weekend, but instead of some farce reminicent of "Decoys" or "The Ski Lodge", everybody has insecure dreams: Daphne dreams she's huge and Niles is sleeping with supermodels; Niles dreams - in a very surreal segment - that he smashes his new baby like a vase while sitting on a rocking chair in a rather big play room. Frasier dreams he has killed Niles and has married Daphne - who seems unperturbed about her husband's death.

Frasier's first wife - a child entertainer - turns up and while they're romping on a prop-bed, the bed rises to the chair and he has to pretend to be part of the show: So we have a Frasier who is dressed up a baby and crying like one, frog-jumping about the stage.

Frasier and his new girlfriend get lost on a drive and spend the night in a strange house with a strange family - and sleeps in the same room as their dead grandmother's coffin.

And the last ever episode, where Frasier and girlfriend Charlette play a boring word-game and says "quilty" is a word; Daphne gives birth; Martin gets married his financee with the horrible voice and everybody thinks Frasier is dying - which is a blatant rip-off of an episode of Becker.

In short, it went on five years too long.