Quote: Tim Walker @ April 9 2010, 12:39 PM BST

So you would defend a shamelessly racist comedian then? Plenty of racism around to "reflect". Well, good to know, at least you're being consistent.

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Depends on whether the comedian is doing his act in a white cloak and mask, or just describing his experiences with the issue of racism and people's reactions to it. There is a difference, even if you fail to see this yourself. And I've searched my history book, but I can't seem to find the time period when people with downs syndrome were enslaved for generations into someones possession purely for that someones financial gain, and when emancipated were segregated into groups so they could be denied the same basic rights as everyone else. Am I missing some pages?

Quote: Tony Cowards @ April 9 2010, 12:42 PM BST

Personally I am a bit surprised that someone who has voluntarily gone to see the notoriously offensive, Frankie Boyle, could then be surprised when he told some jokes that people would find offensive. It's interesting that, presumably, she was okay with other offensive jokes as long as they were about things that weren't personal to her.

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My thoughts entirely.

His comments have made me laugh on Mock The Week from time to time but it was when I saw his live show that I became aware of how limited he actually is. His act was boring / embarrassingly poor.

I also recognise the idea of Boyle as a "dry drunk" and agree that his act says much more about him than "society".

I don't care for him. He's mean-spirited for the sake of it and leaves a sour taste in the mouth.

Quote: Mickeza @ April 9 2010, 12:51 PM BST

I can't seem to find the time period when people with downs syndrome were enslaved for generations into someones possession purely for that someones financial gain, and when emancipated were segregated into groups so they could be denied the same basic rights as everyone else.

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I think you are. People with Down's Syndrome (and many other mental or physical disabilities) were exterminated by the Nazis as a matter of policy (well before WW2), were routinely confined for life in prison asylums and were denied rights to vote and other legal rights for centuries. Speaking as a doctor, I can also sadly tell you that sterilisation without consent was practised on them in this country, as was witholding of life-saving treatments, for many, many years (on the basis that their lives weren't worth saving). Physically and mentally disabled people have a long history of also being denied education, welfare and housing rights.

Which history book are you reading?

Quote: Mickeza @ April 9 2010, 12:51 PM BST

There is a difference, even if you fail to see this yourself. And I've searched my history book,

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You've got just the one? Must be a hell of a book.

People with learning disabilities up until the 70s usually lived by and large in long stay hospitals/institutions. Generally they were somewhat worse than being in prison.

People with learning disabilities have had any kind of fair treatment for maybe 20-30 years.

Frankly ignorance is nothing to be proud of.

Quote: Griff @ April 9 2010, 12:57 PM BST

Worst. Slaves. Ever.

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Good comeback line.

Well haven't we got the moral police in here today. People say stuff about people that they wouldn't say to their faces all the time, for instance my mates girlfriend is a notorious slut, people make jokes about her, but they don't when he/she is around so as to spare his (not hers mind you, 'cos like I said, she's a slut) feelings. Welcome to the real world which exists outside the bubble of this forum. Now, Frankie Boyle IS tapping into the PC/ perceived PC phobia that we have in this country at the moment He say's whatever the hell he wants and this is why he is appealing, and thus is a reflection on society. If all the Daily Mail readers in this thread fail to see that, well, I guess my preconceived and stereotypical opinions about Daily Mail readers are completely correct.

Quote: Mickeza @ April 9 2010, 1:02 PM BST

Well haven't we got the moral police in here today. People say stuff about people that they wouldn't say to their faces all the time, for instance my mates girlfriend is a notorious slut, people make jokes about her, but they don't when he/she is around so as to spare his (not hers mind you, 'cos like I said, she's a slut) feelings. Welcome to the real world which exists outside the bubble of this forum. Now, Frankie Boyle IS tapping into the PC/ perceived PC phobia that we have in this country at the moment He say's whatever the hell he wants and this is why he is appealing, and thus is a reflection on society. If all the Daily Mail readers in this thread fail to see that, well, I guess my preconceived and stereotypical opinions about Daily Mail readers are completely correct.

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Oh I dunno when I worked in Dorset our day centre used to (before my time) make parts for RACAL defence systems. I think the clients got about 20 squids a week for a 40 hours week.

Good to see you back Griff.

Mickeza - would you say it's political correctness gone mad?

Quote: Mickeza @ April 9 2010, 1:02 PM BST

Well haven't we got the moral police in here today. People say stuff about people that they wouldn't say to their faces all the time, for instance my mates girlfriend is a notorious slut, people make jokes about her, but they don't when he/she is around so as to spare his (not hers mind you, 'cos like I said, she's a slut) feelings. Welcome to the real world which exists outside the bubble of this forum. Now, Frankie Boyle IS tapping into the PC/ perceived PC phobia that we have in this country at the moment He say's whatever the hell he wants and this is why he is appealing, and thus is a reflection on society. If all the Daily Mail readers in this thread fail to see that, well, I guess my preconceived and stereotypical opinions about Daily Mail readers are completely correct.

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Yes because being nice, polite or respectful is so PC? I wander if PC actually stands for "preventing c**tishness"

Quote: Griff @ April 9 2010, 1:05 PM BST

Cheers! I'm not really back though.

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No? Are you now like those celebs who get their PA to do all their Twittering? Is "Griff" now a bored 22 year old female media studies graduate? I think we should be told!

Being offensive is his act, he saw a niche in the market and went for it - this is how he got his huge success. Lots of punters like this sort of stuff, Chubby Brown is never out of work, nor was Manning. All he's had to do is change the racist gags into ones about other minoritiss and individuals he doesn't like, to keep his growing laddish fanbase happy.

But it's lured him straight into the hot waters Bernard Manning was caught in, and Manning was far more confident in defending himself, it appears. Boyle seems to get flushed over with immense anger that anyone should criticise his right to free speech, whereas Manning very calmly but firmly stated reasons like the treatment of our troops in the war, when he made jokes about Japanese, or about our culture having to make way for other cultures because 'they come over here to live and bring their country with them.' Many disagreed but you have to say it was some sort of logical defence and Manning really believed it. In that respect Manning was a very honest comedian, and there were many things he would not joke about, and I don't think he would done a routine about DS.

By making fun of disabilities the only defence you can have is, 'But it's true though!' as the angry Boyle is quoted to have said. That is no defence at all, it is a cop out and it makes Boyle look heartless, without any care for anything - he's a father himself! Boyle has pushed the boundaries of what you can do comedy about to beyond stretching point now. He's brought the topic of a law to stop offensive material back into the spotlight. He's just giving fuel to the PC loonies that want to curb what comedians can joke about. And C4 I expect are starting to regret signing him up, disability jokes are not what Channel 4 is about! It'll be interesting to see if continues with that routine on his tour, because a lot of eyes will be on him now.

Quote: Dolly Dagger @ April 9 2010, 1:06 PM BST

Mickeza - would you say it's political correctness gone mad?

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Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ April 9 2010, 1:08 PM BST

Being offensive is his act, he saw a niche in the market and went for it - this is how he got his huge success. Lots of punters like this sort of stuff, Chubby Brown is never out of work, nor was Manning. All he's had to do is change the racist gags into ones about other minoritiss and individuals he doesn't like, to keep his growing laddish fanbase happy.

But it's lured him straight into the hot waters Bernard Manning was caught in, and Manning was far more confident in defending himself, it appears. Boyle seems to get flushed over with immense anger that anyone should criticise his right to free speech, whereas Manning very calmly but firmly stated reasons like the treatment of our troops in the war, when he made jokes about Japanese, or about our culture having to make way for other cultures because 'they come over here to live and bring their country with them.' Many disagreed but you have to say it was some sort of logical defence and Manning really believed it. In that respect Manning was a very honest comedian, and there were many things he would not joke about, and I don't think he would done a routine about DS.

By making fun of disabilities the only defence you can have is, 'But it's true though!' as the angry Boyle is quoted to have said. That is no defence at all, it is a cop out and it makes Boyle look heartless, without any care for anything - he's a father himself! Boyle has pushed the boundaries of what you can do comedy about to beyond stretching point now. He's brought the topic of a law to stop offensive material back into the spotlight. He's just giving fuel to the PC loonies that want to curb what comedians can joke about. And C4 I expect are starting to regret signing him up, disability jokes are not what Channel 4 is about! It'll be interesting to see if continues with that routine on his tour, because a lot of eyes will be on him now.

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Spot on.

I know people with disabilities were discriminated against in Nazi Germany, I know people with mental illness were shoved into prison like conditions, I've read Foucault. I just didn't think everyone on here, you know, would, at least not quite so readily. My point still stands though, Frankie Boyle is a product of society and not the other way around. AND HE DOES NOT INCITE HATRED!!!!

P.S You know what, I don't even like him that much, so it's quite ironic (there's your favourite word Tim) that I'm being stripped and tickled with a machete like feather for defending his humour which I find quite lazy. I still maintain he's a funny guy though, as his appearance on Buzzcocks proved.