Quote: luis kmentt @ December 17 2009, 11:49 AM GMT

No matter what, Outnumbered has kids, and there's a rule in entertainment "shows with animals or kids don't count".

View original

Is there?

Quote: luis kmentt @ December 17 2009, 11:49 AM GMT

The Thick of It took editing and filming elements from The Office and a local politic based plot so that won't count either.

View original

Really? Well, today is proving to be very educative...

Quote: luis kmentt @ December 17 2009, 11:49 AM GMT

Miranda's text is far from the clever and funny bits of Caroline Quentin in Kiss Me Kate of the nineties, taking a woman sitcom as example. Or the girls in Smack The Pony. For Miranda, there's still a long road in comedy to trail.

View original

Do tell us more...

Quote: luis kmentt @ December 17 2009, 11:49 AM GMT

No matter what, Outnumbered has kids, and there's a rule in entertainment "shows with animals or kids don't count".

View original

What are you on about?
Are you in an institution?

Quote: zooo @ December 17 2009, 12:46 PM GMT

What are you on about?
Are you in an institution?

View original

Leave it out, zooo.

Quote: zooo @ December 17 2009, 1:10 PM GMT

View original

Hey now!! Come here...

...and suck on this!

Quote: swerytd @ December 17 2009, 10:30 AM GMT

roscoff is just saying that, as a writer, you'd get negative feedback for creating characters that are so two-dimensional. And he's right -- it wouldn't get very far with a lot of prodcos just for that reason, regardless of how funny it is.

View original

Even bit parts like the friends? Fair enough if Gary had been that flat, but the friends can't have been on for more than a collective 5 minutes in the whole series?

Quote: swerytd @ December 17 2009, 10:30 AM GMT

One of my points was (again, re: writing) does it matter than the characters were two-dimensional, as it's still laugh-out-loud funny?

View original

I guess that depends what you want, as a writer. If you want to create a funny sitcom, then no. If you want to have every character be a deep in-depth analysis of the human psyche, then yes. I take an interest in writing although don't actively do any myself, and am constantly worried by how much emphasis is put on realism and depth in characters at the expense of being funny. (BBC Three's Mouth To Mouth is a pretty good example of this.) They're not mutually exclusive, but I get the distinct feeling that there's a snobbishness which is doing harm to mainstream comedy - if everyone concentrates on the higher-brow, then the odd person who writes more traditional, family-friendly stuff will come up with something like Big Top.

If that makes sense.

Quote: luis kmentt @ December 17 2009, 12:07 PM GMT

In that perspective you are right. It is an enjoyable sitcom.
I will try and watch more episodes, maybe I'm being too narrow-minded
luis

View original

Even if you skip episode 2, watch episode 3.

Quote: Aaron @ December 17 2009, 2:32 PM GMT

I guess that depends what you want, as a writer. If you want to create a funny sitcom, then no. If you want to have every character be a deep in-depth analysis of the human psyche, then yes. I take an interest in writing although don't actively do any myself, and am constantly worried by how much emphasis is put on realism and depth in characters at the expense of being funny. (BBC Three's Mouth To Mouth is a pretty good example of this.) They're not mutually exclusive, but I get the distinct feeling that there's a snobbishness which is doing harm to mainstream comedy - if everyone concentrates on the higher-brow, then the odd person who writes more traditional, family-friendly stuff will come up with something like Big Top.

If that makes sense.

View original

Yeah, exactly! The BBC say they want more family-friendly, audience sitcoms. You write one and a prodco tells you 'characters are two-dimensional' so there is no winning in that scenario. There are no family-friendly, audience sitcoms not cos the writers aren't writing them (apparently due to snobbishness), but that the prodcos are turning them away for lack of realism/characterisation.

I'm glad Miranda got through, but it's made by the BBC directly so never got turned away.

(Again, I'm reiterating that I do like Miranda a lot, and I'm not complaining about the show, just what you get as a writer)

Dan

Quote: swerytd @ December 17 2009, 2:42 PM GMT

Yeah, exactly! The BBC say they want more family-friendly, audience sitcoms. You write one and a prodco tells you 'characters are two-dimensional' so there is no winning in that scenario. There are no family-friendly, audience sitcoms not cos the writers aren't writing them (apparently due to snobbishness), but that the prodcos are turning them away for lack of realism/characterisation.

View original

I think it's more complicated than that. There are no longer the slots for family friendly comedy that there once were. Consequently, what few ones you have really stand out. Also, a lot of the time there is a feeling that the shows (particuarly in the case of Big Top) don't really aspire to be anything special, merely conform to an idea of what middle-class media types think ordinary families want. Rather like Simon Cowell produces music he thinks ordinary people will want, with no real love or understanding of what makes something truly popular.

Miranda is a decent little show because, unlike Big Top, there's heart and conviction behind it. Miranda Hart knows what she wants and has set about creating it.

Admit that it took me a while to get into the swing of the series (my wife loved it from the off) and I was initially annoyed by the underwritten parts for actors like Sally Phillips. But I finally realised I liked being in Miranda's company for half an hour a week and stopped obsessing about issues like "it's Valentine's Day in the show and they're all dressed for summer?".

Quote: chipolata @ December 17 2009, 2:52 PM GMT

I think it's more complicated than that. There are no longer the slots for family friendly comedy that there once were. Consequently, what few ones you have really stand out. Also, a lot of the time there is a feeling that the shows (particuarly in the case of Big Top) don't really aspire to be anything special, merely conform to an idea of what middle-class media types think ordinary families want. Rather like Simon Cowell produces music he thinks ordinary people will want, with no real love or understanding of what makes something truly popular.

View original

I understand. But the reason why I love British productions is exactly for their originality and pioneering approaches. Every succesful British sitcom is so for its breaking of new ground, from Monthy Python to The Office and Borat. Go back to The Beatles, the punk movement, Kings Road, pop music, etc.

I remember being 16 in the UK in 1979 and there was this drama soap opera (not sitcom) about a 16 year old girl fighting for her right to sex and love. Being her same age I adored it. Later in the evening Rowan as a gay priest, etc. Then came The Young Ones, Spitting Image, etc.

It's sad that production managers of today (who were kids formed in the 1980s with an already morally repressive USA promoted society) are now BBC bosses who choose what should be aired...because the 21st century is driven by the American moralism which influences the world, including the UK.

And Simon Cowell's merit is that he's got the sarcasm and frank speech which American producers/presenters haven't and I love listening to him. He is a sitcom in himself.
luis

Thank Krishna this is over.

Start: garbage.
Middle: garbage.
End: garbage.

jim field: garbage.

Quote: Timbo @ December 15 2009, 9:10 PM GMT

The show rests entirely on the star's comic persona,

View original

And I think she's done a good job.
Miranda has definitely gone up in my estimation.
The show does ask the audience to give it a bit of leeway
But once you do then it becomes an enjoyable half hour.

I love it. I'll keep saying it until people listen.

I LOVE MIRANDA!

so much so I'm now following her on Twitter...........ooooh, reminds me must see what she's upto!

You're going to be finding her address and stealing her knickers soon.