Quote: Aaron @ November 2 2009, 11:54 AM GMT

It struck me last night that the plot of this previous episode was almost directly lifted from Yes Minister: S01E07 - Jobs For The Boys where Hacker is caught out by the debacle of discussing the Solihull project; and S01E03 - The Economy Drive (I think), where a mix-up leads to him making rather disparaging remarks about the workforce and laughing about savage cuts to the leader of the trade union. Very little rewriting involved. I have a feeling that there may also have been a similar situation with a reporter, but can't place it (perhaps in Absolute Power actually, also starring Zoe Telford).

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Doesn't that epsiode feature slippery trade union leader Joe Morgan who finds out some dirt on a government project failure and tries to cut a deal for his Midlands based members to get a 20 per cent rise in allowances-
"Tell you what Hacker I'll tell everyone I put in for 30 and you ground me down"

Luscious Zoe Telford seems to have a lot of fans on this board. She is also turned up as a lawyer the other week as well in some prison drama thing with Sophie Okenedo.

Episode 2 red buttons extras, if any of you can possibly take any more... http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/comedy/2009/11/bonus-material-out-of-the-thick-of-it.shtml

Dan

Quote: Griff @ November 2 2009, 11:06 PM GMT

TTOI is obviously going to be constantly compared with Yes Minister.

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Which is a shame, because they're very different type of shows, linked only by a common subject area.

I think I only made the comparison because Yes Minister was obviously based on extensive research into the inner workings of Government, whereas The Thick Of It was based on the observation that "that Alistair Campbell is a bit of a c**t, isn't he?"

I think more research has gone into The Thick Of It than that. They do have people advising on the show who've actually worked in government, including Martin Sixsmith. And I think the show is about more than just doing a hatchet job on Alistair Campbell, it's a scathing denouncement of a government obsessed with message above all else.

As a lowly civil servant I would not claim to be a Westminster insider, but I have worked with ministers and their private offices closely enough to have had face-to-face bollockings from more than one Government minister; perhaps more to the point Whitehall is a village where everyone gossips – you get to hear things. And the world of The Thick Of It is not one I recognise. I am sure everyone who has ever worked in the setting of a workplace comedy or drama has said the same thing, but the lack of attention to basic detail grates, and I find the characters just too far removed from the reality for the satire to be telling. Yes this Government is obsessed with spin (and I could tell you a few stories about that, including ones where I am ashamed at my personal culpability), but it is not this, so much as the infantile unpleasantness, that defines the show.

Quote: Timbo @ November 4 2009, 11:23 AM GMT

As a lowly civil servant I would not claim to be a Westminster insider, but I have worked with ministers and their private offices closely enough to have had face-to-face bollockings from more than one Government minister; perhaps more to the point Whitehall is a village where everyone gossips – you get to hear things. And the world of The Thick Of It is not one I recognise. I am sure everyone who has ever worked in the setting of a workplace comedy or drama has said the same thing, but the lack of attention to basic detail grates, and I find the characters just too far removed from the reality for the satire to be telling. Yes this Government is obsessed with spin (and I could tell you a few stories about that, including ones where I am ashamed at my personal culpability), but it is not this, so much as the infantile unpleasantness, that defines the show.

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All fair points. For me, as an outsider, it seems to reflect quite well certain aspects of modern politics. And, as satire, it does this by magnifying and exagerating and making the characters grotesques.

It certainly has nowhere near the warmth or breadth of a show like Yes Minister, but I don't think it sets out to.

Quote: Griff @ November 2 2009, 11:06 PM GMT

I've been rewatching Yes Minister of late, it is terrific of course, and Nigel Hawthorne's performance is mesmerising. But I think it doesn't really deserve its reputation for complex plotting. The Yes Minister plots are often very simple - Jim does X against Sir Humphrey's wishes, Sir Humphrey meddles so that Jim's scheme gets into a mess, Jim begs Sir Humphrey to help him, Sir Humphrey gets his way in the end.

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Does Yes Minister have a reputation for complex plotting? I'd mostly agree with your analysis of it there.

Quote: youngian @ November 3 2009, 11:59 AM GMT

Doesn't that epsiode feature slippery trade union leader Joe Morgan who finds out some dirt on a government project failure and tries to cut a deal for his Midlands based members to get a 20 per cent rise in allowances-
"Tell you what Hacker I'll tell everyone I put in for 30 and you ground me down"

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Yep, that's the Solihull Project one.

Quote: Timbo @ November 4 2009, 10:49 AM GMT

I think I only made the comparison because Yes Minister was obviously based on extensive research into the inner workings of Government, whereas The Thick Of It was based on the observation that "that Alistair Campbell is a bit of a c**t, isn't he?"

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I'm loving the new series. Seems to be more focus on Tucker - fantastic.

Quote: Griff @ November 2 2009, 11:06 PM GMT

TTOI is obviously going to be constantly compared with Yes Minister.

I've been rewatching Yes Minister of late, it is terrific of course, and Nigel Hawthorne's performance is mesmerising. But I think it doesn't really deserve its reputation for complex plotting. The Yes Minister plots are often very simple - Jim does X against Sir Humphrey's wishes, Sir Humphrey meddles so that Jim's scheme gets into a mess, Jim begs Sir Humphrey to help him, Sir Humphrey gets his way in the end. (i.e. a variation on the standard Jeeves and Wooster plot, except that the Wodehouse stories always had a hundred other subplots going on at the same time.)

This is repeated in episode after episode. I think it's just the "bureaucrat speak" which gives the appearance of the stories being complex.

Whereas TTOI has had brilliantly labyrinthine plotting at times, particularly in the two specials with endless double-dealing and changes of allegiance to keep track of.

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That's a fair point except the dynamic shifted until it was Humphrey out of his depth and Hacker getting the better of him. We have seen Tucker making balls ups and his feral sidekick Jamie undermining him.

Quote: youngian @ November 5 2009, 1:38 PM GMT

That's a fair point except the dynamic shifted until it was Humphrey out of his depth and Hacker getting the better of him.

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They did this with the odd episode, but overall Sir Humphrey got the better of Jim right up to the very end. I think towards the end of the first series of The Thick of It and during the specials, Tucker was undermined by others.

Much better this week. Nice chaotic politic-ness feeling about it. And not too much Malcolm or gratuitous swearing. Good episode.

Very good episode tonight. Important difference from last week is that there was a much better pace and a stronger story to tell, which didn't tire. Shades of the Hugh days with the "piss woman", or the actress in the focus group. Less of the 'Malcolm Tucker Show' as well this week. Best episode so far as regards Rebecca Front, she was great in this one I thought. Think overall it made use of the cast much more successfully and it felt like a proper ensemble piece, with some lovely asides. Good cameo from Miles Jupp as the press officer. The best episodes always for me seem to be the ones where there is a direct conflict with a member/members of the public - or indeed where they are just forced outside the Westminster bubble.

Was like old times. Best one so far this series.

Very good again. Malcolm heading towards breakdown; could be a interesting series arc.

Top marks

Dan