Quote: Godot Taxis @ January 7, 2008, 11:44 PM

We all know what Gervais thinks of C. Tate, lenny henry, British Films, British Sitcom etc., not from what he's said in interviews, but from what his characters have said in his shows. His last project (Extras) was from the 2nd series on an extended exploration of how he has been treated by organisations such as the BBC and fans since he became über-successful.

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You seem to be forgetting that in Extras, Ricky Gervais is acting - playing a CHARACTER - not everything he says is necessarily what he believes. I'm sure John Cleese doesn't think that Basil Fawlty's hotel management is perfect. I'm sure that Ricky Gervais doesn't agree with everything ANDY MILLMAN thinks, but then that's acting. Whether he believes some of it, a lot of it, whatever...people forget that it's not Extras with Ricky Gervais, Darren Lamb and Maggie, but Andy Millman.

I get too annoyed to respond sensibly on this thread, so I'm glad there are people like charisma and Mark around to speak sense.

Quote: zooo @ January 8, 2008, 12:38 AM

I get too annoyed to respond sensibly on this thread, so I'm glad there are people like charisma and Mark around to speak sense.

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I'm not very good at explaining my argument, but I know I'm right so...every cloud...

Is he playing a CHARACTER? You're right, I had forgotten that. I thought he was playing a TOILET SEAT.

The problem is in the distance of the persona. Millman's shadow and Gervais's clearly overlap. You think RG likes all the things his alter ego despises? How quaint.

No, I think that's something people do a lot. Assuming that every line in Extras is Ricky trying to prove a personal point.

They don't seem to presume so much with any other writers.

Quote: Godot Taxis @ January 8, 2008, 12:43 AM

Is he playing a CHARACTER? You're right, I had forgotten that. I thought he was playing a TOILET SEAT.

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Comedy gold.

Quote: Godot Taxis @ January 8, 2008, 12:43 AM

The problem is in the distance of the persona. Millman's shadow and Gervais's clearly overlap. You think RG likes all the things his alter ego despises? How quaint.

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I didn't say all the things, but it is ridiculous to say that because Andy Millman hates x, then Ricky Gervais also hates x...therefore he's a hypocrit.

On page 2 of this thread, someone said that Gervais actually like Big Brother and that makes him a hypocrit - err, no: it means the character he is playing doesn't like it.

Quote: Godot Taxis @ January 8, 2008, 12:43 AM

Is he playing a CHARACTER? You're right, I had forgotten that. I thought he was playing a TOILET SEAT.

The problem is in the distance of the persona. Millman's shadow and Gervais's clearly overlap. You think RG likes all the things his alter ego despises? How quaint.

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Godot my old fella, if you'll just come south of the river with me at this time of night, while I often agree with you I can't on this one. I don't see how you can deduce as fact that Ricky G shares a lot of traits with Millman, or Brent for that matter, just as I can't deduce as fact that he doesn't. Yes, he co-created these characters, but he also co-created Tim and Dawn and they weren't tossers, were they? The only fact (for those of us who don't know him personally) is that we don't really know what he is like as a person. He does appear to hide behind these personas a fair bit, which I have put down to him being a bit shy and uncomfortable. But that's only my impression, not fact.

If you don't like him, fair enough, but better not to like him for his comedy than for what you imagine him to be?

Does anyone actually care what Ricky Gervais thinks?

I can see what Godot is saying but putting words into other people's mouths always leads to trouble. As does putting other things into people's mouths

Quote: charisma @ January 8, 2008, 12:48 AM

Comedy gold.

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I'm not trying to be funny I'm just making it obvious that we all know he's playing a character. I don't hate Gervais. I frequently say that he makes me laugh and I have claimed on this thread that the first series of Extras is 'excellent' - which is over-egging it a bit, but nevertheless is an example of the fact that I'm aware of what's good in his work.

The thing that interests me is what i mentioned in my previous post about the motivation of his writing. You might be a writer and you might be unaware of what your writing says about you - or you might know. The point is that extras has a very sour subtext that has been commented on by many professional and long-trousered wearing critics and not just forum posters who are not fully able to deconstruct what they watch.

You didn't really understand what i wrote.

Quote: Badge @ January 8, 2008, 12:51 AM

he also co-created Tim and Dawn and they weren't tossers, were they?

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Well said. I think we also have to remember that there was a lot of material in Extras about Andy burning his bridges, a lot of focus cast on his poor treatment of Maggie, his best friend, and the scene in the restaurant, where he receives a cruel wake up slap in the face from his agent, who effectively tells him to stop being a spoilt brat and decide what he really wants out of life.

If Andy is a reflection of Ricky's real self, then my impression is there's as much sensitivity and self awareness in him as there is arrogance and big headedness.

You're just describing the plot. That isn't what the show is 'about'.

Even "what it's about" is down to personal interpretation, and yours or a long-trousered critic's might just as easily be wrong as right. At the end of the cliche I don't really care, it just comes down to whether I enjoyed it or not: did it work for me?

I didn't like Extras 2 all that much, but I loved the special.

You may not care, but I do. I'm very interested by Gervais because he is singular in our times as someone who is highly critical of people and organisations that have feted him. He also has self-hate issues. This is played out in his work and is as plain as a white chicken against a red bucket if you want to look for it.

Internet forums are full of people saying they're right and you're wrong etc, but in the real world there are recognised critical strategies that some people on this thread would not be able to ignore.

You do seem to talk of "Ricky Gervais" having done a lot of things that "Andy Millman" has done in Extras. Presumably that's why nobody in the business wants to work with him

Quote: Godot Taxis @ January 8, 2008, 1:35 AM

Internet forums are full of people saying they're right and you're wrong etc, but in the real world there are recognised critical strategies that some people on this thread would not be able to ignore.

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I'm not saying you're wrong but that you can't be sure that you're right. Just as surely, I can't be sure that you are wrong.

I think.

Quote: Godot Taxis @ January 8, 2008, 1:35 AM

He also has self-hate issues.

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All comedians do, even the arsehole who's typing this message does