Quote: Aaron @ January 1, 2008, 11:02 PM

And he doesn't come across as a smug twat when we do, which helps.

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Ooh, that's a dangerous quote without any emphasis

Quote: zooo @ January 1, 2008, 1:50 PM

In the second series there were a couple of moments when Maggie annoyed me by being TOO stupid, I agree. But in this special I thought she was written perfectly, and how she should have been all the way through series 2.
She should be 'retarded' socially, but intelligent morally. Showing us, and Andy, when he is losing the plot.

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I totally agree with Zoo. What the finale had, which for me series 2 didn't, was a credible, consistent and human Maggie. She was all over the place in series 2. This Maggie was the logical extension of the friend from the first series.

I thought the special was excellent and delivered everything that series 2 failed to, in the main. The comedy-drama format worked and gave the characters time to breathe, while still providing funnier moments than most of the 2nd series (my favourites being Tragedy and Hepatitis B).

Ha. Still makes sense because we can't collectively be a single smug twat.

One big bastard of a BSG smug gestalt twat. That would be forum perfection.

I like Merchant, I want him to be my friend. He seems calmer than Gervais. Anyone seen the extras in the Extras DVD? Gervais is a bloody nutjob. There's mania there all right.

I forgot to say, I also really liked the way it was deliberately a stand-alone piece. You didn't have to know anything of the previous 12 episodes to get into it (if you were willing), and I think they managed the "catch-up" storyline fairly effortlessly and unobtrusively for those who had been in for the longer haul.

Quote: Seefacts @ January 1, 2008, 9:58 PM

Merchant is ace - that's a fact. I think he's funnier than Gervais.

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I would be interested in seeing how much they each write. For me, Stephen Merchant is funnier with on the spot comedy, so if you were having a normal chat with him, he would be funnier. But perhaps given time to plan, write down, prepare, Gervais might be funnier (as his stand-up is considerably better than Merchant's was - of course that might just be his style). Whilst I'm talking about Gervais' stand-up, some of the jokes he makes in Animals were jokes that Merchant had made 'on the spot' in the radio shows. Also, theres a couple of anecdotes/wonderings that Merchant told on the radio which ended up in the sitcom (e.g. masturbating over a pen, the TV that was too big for his room).

In my opinion, Merchant is funnier than Gervais...but like I say, it would be intriguing to see who has more input in their sitcoms.

Interesting. Merchant has never struck me as being particularly funny in the interviews that I've seen. He always comes across as a decent bloke but not a massively entertaining one.

Quote: Nick @ January 2, 2008, 4:31 PM

Interesting. Merchant has never struck me as being particularly funny in the interviews that I've seen. He always comes across as a decent bloke but not a massively entertaining one.

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In the radio shows (and to an extent in the podcasts) he comes up with some hilarious remarks about Karl's stories. He also tells very funny anecdotes. Oh, and he's funny in his radio shows too, which you can hear every Sunday from 3-5 on 6music....

Quote: charisma @ January 2, 2008, 5:22 PM

In the radio shows (and to an extent in the podcasts) he comes up with some hilarious remarks about Karl's stories. He also tells very funny anecdotes. Oh, and he's funny in his radio shows too, which you can hear every Sunday from 3-5 on 6music....

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I think both Gervaid AND Merchant are brilliant on that, and work great as a double act but Merchant is no hanger on.

I liked his remark on the Comic Relief sketch where he says 'Well, I'm obviously not as big a GENIUS as you' and pulls a face. He's a great physical comic too.

Quote: Martin Holmes @ January 1, 2008, 2:01 PM

That's a cop out though. We're discussing Gervais's work just like he is taking shots at other comedians in Extras, it's the same thing really, just because he has a mansion and goes golfing with Jonathan Ross doesn't make his opinion anymore right. Plus the points I made aren't pedantic, they are massive problems with the show staring people right in the face.

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I think they are problems you have with the show. These are mere opinions that you seem to be casting off as some sort of fact. I don't agree with most of your 'massive problems'.

I can't believe that your argument that Gervais isn't a genius is largely based on his early work. Like all great writers get it right from day one. Even Seinfeld admits he used to bomb. Also the Office was groundbreaking in the way it hit a modern Zeitgeist that none of the other ones you mentioned did. It related to people all over the world like the others largely didn't and has broken all sorts of sales, reproduction records.

Also, your comments don't correlate to how well his work has been received here and worldwide so its wise not to adopt a 'everyone else is wrong, I'm right' attitude. The fact is people like his characters and style of comedy, people are the ones that will make you a success or a failure as a TV writer, people don't seem to see your opinion/ or are bothered by it.

Quote: Dale Griffiths @ December 29, 2007, 9:11 PM

When I was a student I lived in a tiny rundown room above a porn shop on Eversholt street opposite Euston station. I had a drug addict living on my rhs and a prostitue living on the lhs.

I f**king loved it.

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Maybe so, but the point was that Maggie was a grown woman in her late 30s, and no doubt felt that she should have got past the stage of living in run down pokey flats with fold down beds and dead spiders.

Quote: ContainsNuts @ January 2, 2008, 7:02 PM

I think they are problems you have with the show. These are mere opinions that you seem to be casting off as some sort of fact. I don't agree with most of your 'massive problems'.

I can't believe that your argument that Gervais isn't a genius is largely based on his early work.

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Huh? You can't just pick small bits of my argument and then use that against me, I was comparing his earlier work to his current work and how he's come full circle and how The Office was great but how nothing else that he's done has really been that good.

Quote: ContainsNuts @ January 2, 2008, 7:02 PM

Also, your comments don't correlate to how well his work has been received here and worldwide so its wise not to adopt a 'everyone else is wrong, I'm right' attitude. The fact is people like his characters and style of comedy, people are the ones that will make you a success or a failure as a TV writer, people don't seem to see your opinion/ or are bothered by it.

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Lots of people have that opinion, I don't think it's just me that can see that the majority of his 'jokes' are based on "cringe moments" and especially in the second series at the expense of minority groups, even the fans of the show can see that and they like that. Even the most simple of newspaper critics can see that and it has been discussed many times in interviews with Gervais and about Gervais.

“You know when you play tennis with someone who’s nowhere near as good as you,” he says, “and you have to say, ‘Okay, you can play in the doubles area and I’ll only use one arm’? That’s what me and Steve feel like when we’re doing comedy in England. It sounds arrogant. But the first time I won a BAFTA, I thought, Wow, this is amazing. Then they called out someone else who won a BAFTA, and I thought, Well, they’re rubbish. They’re awful. I’m not so proud of this now.” - Ricky Gervais

I can't believe how smug the above comment is and how sneery it is of other British comedy. I'll be the first to agree that I think right now America has a far better comedy output than us but we still have some great shows, Peep Show, The Thick Of It, Not Going Out...and for Gervais to just totally shit on those and other shows is one of the reasons I really find it hard to like the guy and it's a shame because I did use to really like him, I love The Office and I quite liked his Animals show even if it was just reading funny facts off the internet but I don't like how the "fake smugness" has become real smugness over the years, so even the points that he makes that I do agree with sometimes just sound hypocritical coming from him.

Quote: Martin Holmes @ January 3, 2008, 1:46 PM

I'll be the first to agree that I think right now America has a far better comedy output than us but we still have some great shows, Peep Show, The Thick Of It, Not Going Out...and for Gervais to just totally shit on those and other shows

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I agree that sometimes Gervais can come across as arrogant and smug but some people seem to want to misunderstand what he is saying.

Gervais has never said that he hates all sitcom (which is what some other people seem to think) and has never said that he thinks all other British shows are dire (which is what you seem to think). In fact he has specifically mentioned how much he loves Peep Show.

Gervais is talking generally when he complains about the current state of British comedy and dozens of people have said the same thing on these boards. Also, when he criticizes sitcoms he criticizes those which have no reality in them. That certainly doesn't mean that he hates them all as his fondness for something like Ever Decreasing Circles indicates.

Quote: Martin Holmes @ January 3, 2008, 1:46 PM

I'll be the first to agree that I think right now America has a far better comedy output than us but we still have some great shows, Peep Show, The Thick Of It, Not Going Out...and for Gervais to just totally shit on those and other shows is one of the reasons I really find it hard to like the guy

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I think your comment here sums things up. You are clearly judging Gervais's shows on him as a person rather than the quality of them. For example, you dismissed Extras Series 2 as being awful. Now I think that series was definitely flawed but is there anybody other than a Gervais hater who would describe it as being 'awful'? I've yet to see any 1 star reviews for it anyway.

Then you describe Not Going Out as being a, 'great show'. Now I quite like it but great show is going way too far. I've never seen it get any 5 star reviews and there has been almost universal criticism of several characters and some of the writing.

My point, probably badly made, is that you seem to be watching Gervais's work in a different way to how you watch other shows. If you were to look at Not Goig Out, for example, with a critical eye and pick out any big or small faults then could you really describe it as being great?

Oh I know that he really likes Peep Show and The Thick Of It, but the point still stands he said that and he said that his and Steve's work is better than any British comedy, in an American newspaper too which seems to shout out "there's no other British comedy worth checking out".

I really wouldn't mind him saying all of that if the Extras special was as special as I thought it would be. I don't mind a bit of arrogance, but to have such a sustained persona, tongue-in-cheek or not, you've got to keep producing stuff of an exceptionally high standard to remain credible. Of course, Gervais would say that he still produces the best stuff on tv and doesn't give a shit. Which is not entirely invalid.

Quote: Nick @ January 3, 2008, 2:48 PM

I think your comment here sums things up. You are clearly judging Gervais's shows on him as a person rather than the quality of them. For example, you dismissed Extras Series 2 as being awful. Now I think that series was definitely flawed but is there anybody other than a Gervais hater who would describe it as being 'awful'? I've yet to see any 1 star reviews for it anyway.

Then you describe Not Going Out as being a, 'great show'. Now I quite like it but great show is going way too far. I've never seen it get any 5 star reviews and there has been almost universal criticism of several characters and some of the writing.

My point, probably badly made, is that you seem to be watching Gervais's work in a different way to how you watch other shows. If you were to look at Not Goig Out, for example, with a critical eye and pick out any big or small faults then could you really describe it as being great?

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You're right on the last point about Not Going Out, I shouldn't have said it's a great show, although it does have potential of becoming great over time. If you've read the Not Going Out thread you'll see that I've been very critical of some parts of it.

But me not liking Gervais as a person (plus this opinion is only from how he comes across in interviews on TV, who's to say I wouldn't get along with him in person) does not really effect my opinion of his shows, it just effects my opinions on his points of view. As I've said I still really love The Office, Animals is okay and if you go back through this thread you'll even see that I said I enjoyed the Extras special. But the point still stands for me that Extras Series 2 was awful and there have been some critics to go against the grain and agree with that statement, if you desperately want to see I'll try to find those statements. I think a person who is an avid fan of Gervais's work is going to have a more stilted view, as that person finds it hard to find faults in his work, they try to come up with an excuse for everything and are blind to criticism...I know this a bit because I can be like that with some of my favourite shows.

Quote: James Williams @ January 3, 2008, 2:55 PM

I really wouldn't mind him saying all of that if the Extras special was as special as I thought it would be. I don't mind a bit of arrogance, but to have such a sustained persona, tongue-in-cheek or not, you've got to keep producing stuff of an exceptionally high standard to remain credible. Of course, Gervais would say that he still produces the best stuff on tv and doesn't give a shit. Which is not entirely invalid.

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Exactly, that's my point. He makes these bold statements that would be all well and good if he was delivering amazing, groundbreaking comedy but the fact is..he isn't. To say "I don't care if people don't like me because I'm in Hollywood films, I've got Emmys and Baftas etc etc" just comes across as smug and childish.