Quote: Renegade Carpark @ February 22 2012, 1:32 PM GMT

They wouldn't have to suffer if we had proper smoking and anti-smoking areas, properly delineated and well ventilated. Again, if you are poisoning yourself voluntarily with alcohol (or worse), then you can't get on your high horse claiming another legal product is unacceptable.

Personally, I think they should ban coffee, it tastes disgusting and is bad for you. Because I don't like coffee, this automatically makes me correct.

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A no smoking area doesn't stop passive smoking. Smoke TRAVELS.

Am not saying don't smoke. If you wish to do it fine, but why should someone who has made the choice not to then have their health affected?

Quote: Harridan @ February 22 2012, 1:30 PM GMT

I suppose the difference is that few people die from exposure trying to have a fag but people do die from second hand smoke.

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Again, those figures are disputable and there hasn't been a credible study made on the effects of second hand smoke. Is it good for you? No way. Has asthma and other breathing related difficulties increased in London since the smoking ban? Yes indeedy.

Allowing smoking in pubs puts social pressure on other drinkers to expose themselves to cigarette smoke, but as a libertarian I recognise that non-smoking drinkers are free to shun their smoking friends like lepers. Of more concern is the issue of staff who come under economic pressure to expose themselves to cigarette smoke at high concentrations over a prolonged length of time. Perhaps a health and safety approach is required as with risks in other industries: staff can work in smoking bars but must at all times wear breathing apparatus. The atmosphere would I am sure be convivial.

Quote: Rooface @ February 22 2012, 1:35 PM GMT

A no smoking area doesn't stop passive smoking. Smoke TRAVELS.

Am not saying don't smoke. If you wish to do it fine, but why should someone who has made the choice not to then have their health affected?

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Then non-smokers should stand outside the pubs and get all that lovely fresh air, not the other way around.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ February 22 2012, 1:32 PM GMT

Personally, I think they should ban coffee, it tastes disgusting and is bad for you. Because I don't like coffee, this automatically makes me correct.

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The flaw to that, of course, is that many people who are happy about the ban on smoking in public buildings won't be actually anti-smoking. I'm not, smoke away.

Quote: Timbo @ February 22 2012, 1:36 PM GMT

Perhaps a health and safety approach is required as with risks in other industries: staff can work in smoking bars but must at all times wear breathing apparatus. The atmosphere would I am sure be convivial.

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Most of the staff in pubs in London are Eastern European and smoke like chimneys anyways. But if we go down the health and safety route and reach a logical conclusion, by not serving alcohol in pubs, staff would be even safer.

Quote: Matthew Stott @ February 22 2012, 1:37 PM GMT

The flaw to that, of course, is that many people who are happy about the ban on smoking in public buildings won't be actually anti-smoking. I'm not, smoke away.

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Same here, in fact I really like the smell of smoke, but that's beside the point. Your decision to smoke shouldn't inhibit on others' decision not to, and others' right not to be exposed to it.

I am not sure there is a risk from passive drinking.

When the masses rise up against the government on the grounds that one man was ask not to smoke his JPS in a pub, then I might begin to believe there is a conspiracy going on.....

On that day, Ellie will actually get a bag of willies.

Secondary smoke may or may not be an issue, but it is pleasant to be able to have a drink without going home smelling like an ashtray. The smoking ban in pubs has saved me much laundry.

Quote: Timbo @ February 22 2012, 1:39 PM GMT

I am not sure there is a risk form passive drinking.

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Then you should visit an A&E on a Friday night. Ask the doctors and nurses how many people have come in complaining from second hand smoke.

Being a democratic free market, no one could force a pub to accept smokers. The lack of choice has been imposed from up on high, if the government truly reflected society, they would allow 20% of pubs to have a 'smoking license'.

Quote: Rooface @ February 22 2012, 1:40 PM GMT

When the masses rise up against the government on the grounds that one man was ask not to smoke his JPS in a pub, then I might begin to believe there is a conspiracy going on.....

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There has been some moves in that direction from Conservative back benchers in the hopes of revitalising the flagging pub industry. It is always shot down by our democratically elected officials before it can get a proper reading.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ February 22 2012, 1:46 PM GMT

Then you should visit an A&E on a Friday night. Ask the doctors and nurses how many people have come in complaining from second hand smoke.

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You're right. Those people tend to turn up at Oncology instead...

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ February 22 2012, 1:46 PM GMT

if the government truly reflected society, they would allow 20% of pubs to have a 'smoking license'.

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Smoking Ghettos.

Quote: Matthew Stott @ February 22 2012, 1:47 PM GMT

Smoking Ghettos.

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IN THE GHEEEEETTOOOOOO....

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ February 22 2012, 1:44 PM GMT

Then you should visit an A&E on a Friday night. Ask the doctors and nurses how many people have come in complaining from second hand smoke.

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Yes, in my old local in Birmingham the barmaid had an impressive facial scar where she had been glassed. But it is a different issue and could be dealt with appropriately. I would have no objection to bar staff being issued with tasers.