Quote: lofthouse @ 24th May 2014, 11:09 AM BST

Get rid of miliband and balls and match Cameron's promise of an in out referendum

Labour win power with a clear majority

No question

Will they do it?

Nope

Do they actually WANT to win the next GE ?

I'm not convinced they really do....

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I don't know, I'd actually like it if a party stuck to their principles (whether I agreed or not), rather than just morphing into whatever they think the public wants.

That's the kind of attitude that has made the Big 3 a bland much-of-a-muchness, and allowed "say what we mean and mean what we say" politians to make some headway in recent years.

There's principle and then there's arrogant obstinacy.

How can it not be a bad vote loser though ?

Cameron - yes we are goin to let the public have a say and decide

Miliband - no we have decided and we won't let the public even express their opinion

How can that not look dreadful - especially on those leaders TV debates next year?

Crazy thing is of course is that Cameron himself is 100% comited to staying in Europe !

First of all what pitiful excuse of a government throws open referendums on the basis of a moaning by a minority party.

Whatever next repealing votes for blacks because the BNP don't like 'em, or banning flat caps down south to appease the Yorkshire first party.

You elect a government to make choices and occaisonally listen, not hang around simpering like an ugly bloke at the school disco.

You expect your government to have courage of conviction and take responsibility. Perhaps if we were expected to hand any significant more power to the EU yes, but we're not.

Quote: lofthouse @ 24th May 2014, 11:23 AM BST

Miliband - no we have decided and we won't let the public even express their opinion

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But, wouldn't the General Election be the public's chance to show their opinion?

"This is what we feel. If you like it, vote for us. If you don't like it, vote for the other lot.

Precisely that's how democracy works.

There seems to be a deranged view these days, that democracy is all about micro choices and opinions. When it's really about electing an accountable government for 4 years and hoping they do the right thing.

It's like being asked ass or mouth by your rapist uncle, when really you want to call the police.

Quote: sootyj @ 24th May 2014, 11:39 AM BST

Precisely that's how democracy works.

There seems to be a deranged view these days, that democracy is all about micro choices and opinions. When it's really about electing an accountable government for 4 years and hoping they do the right thing.

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EU membership is not really a micro choice, it is pretty much fundamental issue of sovereignty - any area of autonomy that has been negotiated away cannot be claimed back without leaving the EU. You can, to take the most obvious example, only vote against a policy of unrestricted EU immigration by voting to leave the EU, an option that none of the three parties of government are offering in their manifestos.

To be honest I doubt we would be that much worse off if we leave the EU; most British manufacturing survives on offering unique quality, so in those areas exports are unlikely to be affected. Where we might suffer is where overseas multinationals have invested in the UK as an an entrepôt into Europe. On the plus side we might be able to start rebuilding our industrial base by awarding UK contracts to UK companies; though I am not sure that it is necessary to leave the EU to do that. We just need UK officials to adopt the same pragmatic approach to twisting EU rules that occurs elsewhere in Europe - something unthinkable to the free trade pursuits of Whitehall. My own suspicion is that if the electorate forced us out of the EU we would fail to reap any practical benefits, because our politicians would still be creeping up to the EU from the outside.

Why are journalists asking the Conservatives if they would form a coalition after next election with UKIP? Form a coalition with what? They have no MP's, and in all likelihood will still have none after the election, or at the least will have very few. They might as well ask Osborne if the Cons would consider a coalition with a giant owl after the general election.

Because the news is entertainment and UKIP are entertaining.

It's the political equivalent of asking 2 actors if they fancy each other because they starred in a rom together.

Voter turnout 36%

Poor

Quote: sootyj @ 24th May 2014, 1:22 PM BST

Because the news is entertainment and UKIP are entertaining.

It's the political equivalent of asking 2 actors if they fancy each other because they starred in a rom together.

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I don't understand who is being entertained by UKIP. Do people just enjoy footage of a man/fish hybrid glugging beer?

They should have prizes, like the winner gets to honk Ed's comedy nose or wipe the grease of cameron's great big shiny face.

Edit: Crap posting. Moved to football thread where it's more at home.

Quote: Matthew Stott @ 24th May 2014, 1:24 PM BST

I don't understand who is being entertained by UKIP. Do people just enjoy footage of a man/fish hybrid glugging beer?

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I do Nigel is the eternal straight man, he's not funny in himself. But whether it's been insulted on HIGNFY, egged in public or being caught out hanging in club Nazi at the European Parliament.

You can be promised some excellent huffing, some top class eye boggling and a couple of delightful responses.

He like Jeremy Clarkson is a Hogarth cartoon made flesh.

Quote: sootyj @ 24th May 2014, 1:52 PM BST

I do Nigel is the eternal straight man, he's not funny in himself. But whether it's been insulted on HIGNFY, egged in public or being caught out hanging in club Nazi at the European Parliament.

You can be promised some excellent huffing, some top class eye boggling and a couple of delightful responses.

He like Jeremy Clarkson is a Hogarth cartoon made flesh.

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He is quite amusing at the EU parliament. You can see the anguish on the faces of the various big swinging dicks at the EU when he stands up to speak.