Fawlty Towers Page 13

Fawlty Towers. Image shows from L to R: Sybil Fawlty (Prunella Scales), Basil Fawlty (John Cleese), Polly (Connie Booth), Manuel (Andrew Sachs). Copyright: BBC.

Fawlty Towers

Comedy about a hotel and its owner, a man of infinite rudeness with a rabid dislike of almost all guests

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Aaron

  • Saturday 13th June 2020, 1:46pm
  • Royal Berkshire, England
  • 68,829 posts

Mahoney, 81, an anti-racism campaigner, said the episode needed to be seen because it satirised the attitudes of people who used racist language.

He told The Times: "I don't think there was anything wrong with Fawlty Towers. My feeling is he [the major] said what he said because he believed it. I don't think he was a nasty man and I think if he said the n-word it should be said very loudly because that's what offensive people say. It's mocking people who endorse his views."

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KM378

  • Saturday 13th June 2020, 2:02pm
  • London, England
  • 5,638 posts

Thanks,

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Michael Monkhouse

  • Saturday 13th June 2020, 3:30pm [Edited]
  • Eternal City, Italy
  • 5,833 posts
Quote: chipolata @ 13th June 2020, 12:26 PM

We should ban stuff more often because this is the liveliest the BCG has been for years.

Yes, it's a fascinating discussion.
Are shows like Till Death Us Do Part racist because they depict racist views, or are they non-racist because they satirise the racist views depicted?
Some argue that shows like Till Death Us Do Part are racist because they depict racist views; others hold that they are non-racist because they satirise the racist views depicted.
'Shows like Till Death Us Do Part are racist,' argues one group: 'After all, they depict racist views.' 'No,' argues the other group, They are non-racist. They satirise these racist views depicted.'
However, this argument does not convince the first group. 'These shows are racist,' they argue. 'They must be racist because they depict racist views.' But the counterarguing group counterargues its counterargument: 'Yes, these shows do depict racist views. But they are non-racist because they satirise the racist views depicted.'
What do you think? Are these shows racist because they depict racist views? Or are they non-racist because they satirise the racist views depicted?
We took this discussion onto the streets. Are shows like Till Death Us Do Part racist? They depict racist views, don't they?... Or are they non-racist because they actually satirise these racist views depicted?
Some argued that these shows are racist, and pointed to the racist views they depict, whereas others held the opposite view, arguing that they were actually satirising these racist views.
Who knows?

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DaButt

  • Saturday 13th June 2020, 4:29pm
  • The Lone Star State, United States
  • 14,022 posts

It's not easy to find a show or film made pre-2000 that isn't offensive in some way. Fawlty Towers isn't unique. I'd rather people spend their time working to improve themselves (we're all Fawlty in some way) instead of poring over archives in search of another celebrity ox to gore.

Burning books is seldom a good solution for confronting a problem. Art is a snapshot of a moment in time, and nobody should want that photo to be airbrushed beyond recognition. There are plenty of reasonable solutions: add a disclaimer before or after the video. Offer both censored and uncensored* versions - the music industry uses that to good effect for songs that are sometimes extremely offensive.

Hopefully the furor will die down and calmer heads will prevail.

I originally wrote non-censored and then realized that "NON-CENS" perfectly described the current situation regarding the urge to tear down anything that offends anyone.

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lofthouse

  • Saturday 13th June 2020, 6:32pm
  • Nowhere, England
  • 10,112 posts

UKTV has now removed all episodes of Gavin and Stacey

Not because it's racist - because it's a load of w*nk

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Michael Monkhouse

  • Saturday 13th June 2020, 8:09pm [Edited]
  • Eternal City, Italy
  • 5,833 posts

Only Fooks and Horses is offensive to the human race.
Isn't moderating a forum or FB page just another form of censorship? There was a very crude comment on a FB page for Bianca Guaccero (my fall-back plan if Melanie C doesn't have the courage to propose to me) and I was gonna complain to the moderator, not least because Bianca has never degenerated into tabloid sleaze... Then I thought no, you can't censor. If he wants to be a dick, what's it got to do with me?
Back on topic, the mass discussion continues to rage. Are these shows racist because they depict racist views, or are these shows non-racist because they satirise the racist views depicted therein?

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KM378

  • Sunday 14th June 2020, 6:24am
  • London, England
  • 5,638 posts
Quote: Michael Monkhouse @ 13th June 2020, 3:30 PM

Yes, it's a fascinating discussion.
Are shows like Till Death Us Do Part racist because they depict racist views, or are they non-racist because they satirise the racist views depicted?
Some argue that shows like Till Death Us Do Part are racist because they depict racist views; others hold that they are non-racist because they satirise the racist views depicted.
'Shows like Till Death Us Do Part are racist,' argues one group: 'After all, they depict racist views.' 'No,' argues the other group, They are non-racist. They satirise these racist views depicted.'
However, this argument does not convince the first group. 'These shows are racist,' they argue. 'They must be racist because they depict racist views.' But the counterarguing group counterargues its counterargument: 'Yes, these shows do depict racist views. But they are non-racist because they satirise the racist views depicted.'
What do you think? Are these shows racist because they depict racist views? Or are they non-racist because they satirise the racist views depicted?
We took this discussion onto the streets. Are shows like Till Death Us Do Part racist? They depict racist views, don't they?... Or are they non-racist because they actually satirise these racist views depicted?
Some argued that these shows are racist, and pointed to the racist views they depict, whereas others held the opposite view, arguing that they were actually satirising these racist views.
Who knows?

I disagree.

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Michael Monkhouse

  • Sunday 14th June 2020, 7:02am
  • Eternal City, Italy
  • 5,833 posts

Both sides agree that these shows depict racist views. However, one side argues that these shows are racist because they depict racist views, whilst the other side argues that these shows are non-racist because they satirise these racist views depicted.

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Firkin

  • Sunday 14th June 2020, 12:24pm [Edited]
  • United Kingdom
  • 1,138 posts

Fair point Michael.
So to summaries the thread, they're not going to censor beloved sitcoms like Faulty Towers or OFAH just put a warning on. Pretty much in line with what they always do. Suggesting the story was another "Get your hands of our wonky bananas EU" story, i.e. false. I think Which.co.uk should audit the entire internet to remove the bull, problem sorted. On a more positive note, the first person to misuse the N word, will be released from Guantanamo bay tomorrow. He was tortured by having to watch the entire series of It's Ain't Half hot Mum. He no longer finds racism a laughing matter.

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Kenneth

  • Sunday 14th June 2020, 1:35pm
  • Australia
  • 5,437 posts
Quote: Firkin @ 14th June 2020, 12:24 PM

Fair point Michael.
So to summaries the thread, they're not going to censor beloved sitcoms like Faulty Towers or OFAH just put a warning on. Pretty much in line with what they always do.

The Major's racial epithets in The Germans have been censored from some broadcasts of Fawlty Towers for about a decade already. OFAH has been censored for a long time on DVDs and repeats. Stuff like "been to the Paki shop" being cut. OFAH was only ever a poor man's Minder, which also suffered some cuts - such as "Race Relations is for Lucozades not for Jerries", but those cuts were not inflicted on the original DVD box sets of Minder released by Umbrella in Australia about a decade ago. Minder DVD releases by Fremantle/Network have cuts inflicted because people making the decisions are idiots trying to justify their phony-baloney jobs.

As for a summary of this thread, SlagA asked if a background character in an episode of Fawlty Towers was a cameo by Graham Chapman. Harry 'Aitch' Fielder (who was in an episode of Fawlty Towers) replied that it was one of his mates, not Chapman, then things started to ramble until the news UKTV had pulled The Germans episode. Aitch is still a fount of information on movies/sitcoms/being an extra, and is still posting on Facebook.

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Michael Monkhouse

  • Sunday 14th June 2020, 4:42pm
  • Eternal City, Italy
  • 5,833 posts
Quote: Firkin @ 14th June 2020, 12:24 PM

Fair point Michael.

Which one? That the shows can be seen as racist because they depict racist views? Or as non-racist because they satirise the racist views depicted?
Tomorrow, I'll be considering charges of sexism in 'Both Sides of The Coin'. The title is a bit of a spoiler.

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Sitcomfan64

  • Monday 15th June 2020, 12:32am [Edited]
  • England
  • 839 posts

I'm glad the episode has been put back up unedited. I wonder if the future might include both the unedited and edited versions just to be on the safe side.

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lofthouse

  • Sunday 21st June 2020, 9:14pm
  • Nowhere, England
  • 10,112 posts

Who cares really ?

Anybody remotely interested in watching Fawlty Towers will have seen every episode about 12 times already anyway

If you haven't bothered to watch the greatest British sitcom ever made by now - you don't deserve to see it , either edited or unedited

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Aaron

  • Sunday 21st June 2020, 9:42pm
  • Royal Berkshire, England
  • 68,829 posts
Quote: lofthouse @ 21st June 2020, 9:14 PM

Anybody remotely interested in watching Fawlty Towers will have seen every episode about 12 times already anyway

If you haven't bothered to watch the greatest British sitcom ever made by now - you don't deserve to see it , either edited or unedited

You know that some people have been born this side of the Millennium, right?