I have just had an interesting "discussion" on the critique forum which basically involved me slagging off a fellow writer about a line he has on his My Space site.

The line, "I've got a criminal record as long as a thalidomide's arm", I personally found offensive but most of all totally lacking in comic value. Most of the threads then went onto slag me off for being insensitive towards the said writer and over reacting to the 'Joke'.

However as the discussion developed I realised how political correctness is nothing but an illusion.

Say the line had read, " As long as a Black Man's d1ck" or "As long as a Jew's nose", then I believe other forum users would also have taken offence.

What is the difference ?. The difference is Thalidomide victims are easy target for cowards. They can't hit back, and no I don't just mean physically, I mean politically. It's why most writers and comics don't tend to say too much controversial stuff about Moslems because on some level we are afraid to because of what has happenned to other 'artists' who did this.

Just thought I'd open this up for discussion.

It is also true that if you are a skilled enough writer you don't have to get laughs by targeting minority groups. Please don't accuse me of being boring and only liking 'safe' comedy. Believe me, nothing could be further from the truth.

.

Let me explain the thalidomide joke:

When someone is describing something as being very long they’ll compare to an arm i.e. “I’ve got a list of ex girlfriends as long as your arm”.

Now, I said “I’ve got a criminal record as long as a thalidomide’s arm”.

The humour behind it is a reveal. The reveal is that a thalidomide has a short arm. Therefore I have a short criminal record. If I had a long record then perhaps I could say “I’ve got a criminal record as long as an orang-utan’s arm”. It’s a play on words, a subversion of the phrase or whatever.

At no point do I knock thalidomide victims. I simply use a medical fact as a reference.

And why can't Thalidomide victims hit back? They can say what they want. Who put a gagging order on them?

That's how i saw it! Don't see the problem?

I'm not asking you to explain yourself Winterlight. Just trying to get you to realise how the 'joke' was no different than taking the p1ss out of 'blacks' ,'Jews' 'Asians' etc. And why wouldn't you do this. Because you would be afraid of being labelled a racist.

Just face it Winterlight, thalidomide victims were an easy target.

Do you know the history of the thalidomide drug and the company that produced it ?.
Possibly you should 'google' it.

first of all a 'black man's dick' and a 'jew's nose' are stereotyped as big were as a thalidomide's arm is the opposite so the joke wouldn't work.

I don't find the joke that funny but nor do i find it offensive.

I doubt winterlight set out with the intention of targeting thalidomide victims. He could of said a midgets dick for example, but thought of thalidomide first. Only he can say for sure of course.

Personally I think every subject is a viable topic for humour and I have never been offended by a joke.

Note - sorry didn't read other posts!

Quote: jacparov @ February 22, 2008, 7:40 PM

first of all a 'black man's dick' and a 'jew's nose' are stereotyped as big were as a thalidomide's arm is the opposite so the joke wouldn't work.

I don't find the joke that funny but nor do i find it offensive.

View original

Jacparov I wasn't saying you have to use those lines in that particular context all I'm saying is the thalidomide line is no different from taking the p1ss out of minority groups, which would have been perceived in a far less positive light on these forums.

Would he have written a similar line about a black or asian ?. No.

All I am asking is what is the difference in this case ?

Okay...

There is a difference between the thalidomide gag and the blackman gag. The thalidomide gag is based on a medical fact where as the black man or jewish gag are based on a racial stereotype.

Now...

Is "As useful as an epiletic in the bomb squad." more or less offensive than "She was sweating like a singer in a gospel choir." and is that more or less offensive than "As happy as a chav with a new bruncle."

jokes will always offend some one, but as a "some times" wise man once said is it more funny than offensive.

As for the thalidomide gag, it's funny, not tears down the face funny but one sided grin funny.
Is it offensive? not to me, but then again my arms are of average length. It is slightly lazy and I'm sure with a bit of thought there could a better gag... as long as the venus de milo's arm....

kjs

On the question of political correctness been an illusion I do agree somewhat.

You always see people on the net saying "The PC Brigade" or "It's PC gone mad" etc but rarely it has anything to do with PC. It's only on the news that I hear of this PC malarkey, in my day to day life I never have anyone say to me to stop saying something because it's not PC, there is no such thing as the PC police.

If in your everyday life you do constantly have people telling you to stop saying something and that its not PC, then maybe, just maybe what you are saying IS actually offensive. But personally I think this PC stuff is way over-hyped. The only time I hear of it going too ridiculous levels is like I said on the news.

If PC means been fair to people then I'm all for it.

fair enough, although I do not think winterlight was 'targeting' thalidomides. He didn't get up one morning and say to himself, 'I'll take the piss out of the handicapped.'

Having written with him I know that generally he strives to write intelligent, well thought humour. But he does have a dark side.

Is it any different from taking the piss out of minority groups? No. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

Would he tell a racist joke? I don't know, I wouldn't of thought so but this isn't the same. As I think he said Thalidomides do have short arms, it's a fact. Unfortunate, but still a fact.

I must say I agree with KJSmyling on this one.

But if Nigel has some personal experience with this, it's understandable he's offended in some way. Aside from him not finding it funny in the first place!

Quote: KJSmyling @ February 22, 2008, 7:58 PM

Okay...

There is a difference between the thalidomide gag and the blackman gag. The thalidomide gag is based on a medical fact where as the black man or jewish gag are based on a racial stereotype.

View original

This is the key point. It's not a joke which uses lazy and ignorant stereotypes.

If Pete has had experience of this then I understand why he's upset, but everyone has problems that are mocked. Problems that I've had have been the subject of jokes. They've made me feel a little uncomfortable, yeah, but I know that they're not aimed directly at me.

Quote: Winterlight @ February 22, 2008, 8:08 PM

It's not a joke which uses lazy and ignorant stereotypes.

View original

God bless you Winterlight, that's the funniest thing you've written on this site.

Please tell me you realise the irony in it !!!!.

Whatever you think, I honestly don't dislike you Winterlight, I don't know you so how could I. And you seem to have a lot of friends on here which says a lot about you.

And as you quite rightly say, comedy is very subjective.

I think your thalidomide comment was totally insensitive but worst still totally unfunny. As I say I think you have to be an excellent comedy writer to get away with such stuff.

There needs to be a deftness of touch with that kind of material and I don't honestly think you have that yet.

But who knows what the future will bring.

Take Care, NT

The key point, for me, is that it is a rather clever play on words.

I guess you could go for the more usual target:
"I've got a criminal record as long as Abu Hamza'a arm."

We'e getting carried away here - and I'm not being cynical or taking the piss but I truly think that Alison Lapiter is a beautiful woman.

Let's get back to comedy eh?

The joke's rubbish - that's all that matters to me.