Quote: Aaron @ February 25, 2008, 5:37 PMJokes at other peoples' expense are the best there is. I particularly enjoy Jim Davidson.
someone made a good point earlier that great comedy targets the bigots themselves. i'm not a great fan of borat the movie but the series and his various interviews with anti semitic Americans were hilarious. i suppose he can get away with it, him being Kazakhstani and all.
It took me 2 minutes to find a racist, routine from Dodd.
It was also quite funny, so he's not quite as awful as I thought.
Sootyj
That looks from the 80s when we weren't 'bothered' me included. I loved Bernard Manning until I became 'educated' just as I became educated in rights for animals, we all followed like sheep, excuse the pun, until the PC brigade pointed out the error of our ways. Now I can't even enjoy a shrimp let alone a chicken dinner.
One has to think about the target and if any one of us on here had a thalidomide child, I'm sure they wouldn't be laughing. That's not to say Winterlight is unthinking/uncaring, it seems to be lack of 'education'?
So because he was racist in the 80s, and was jsut following the crowd thats ok.
How intriguing whats the cut off point for racism being acceptable, it's just that the poor sod who shot Martin Luther King might want you to join his defence team,
n.b. Bent Elton, Rowan Atkinson, Alexie Sayle, Bill Murray and 1000s of others were performing at the time, and were not racist. Were they ahead of their time, or jsut not racist clapped out, tax dodging music hall left overs.
as I said, we all followed like sheep, it was the way it was.
Don't get at me, I have a black brother-in-law, consequently a mixed race niece, Israeli son-in-law (now deceased) and a Glaswegian brother-in-law. I am not racist but laughed along with everyone else in my ignorance. It was the 'norm' we didn't know any difference but I'm talking from the 40s up to the late 70s/80s
Quote: sootyj @ February 25, 2008, 5:59 PMhttp://www.google.com/search?q=ken+dodd+racist&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B2DVFA_enGB224GB226
It took me 2 minutes to find a racist, routine from Dodd.
It was also quite funny, so he's not quite as awful as I thought.
That's racist? :-/
Not getting at any one at all, but ever since I found out Magda Goebells had specific Jewish friends spared, it is an argument that I find a tad shallow.
Ken did racist material, Ben Elton bullied Benny Hill into an early grave. Chris Morris gleefully mocked peadophilia, and now one questioned that for most of the 60s and 70s Asian characters on TV were played by white guys in bisto.
What I am depsiairingly and ultimately unsuccesfully trying to say, is there is no line to be drawn. Sorting comedy into the acceptable, and unacceptable is roughly akin to slicing an over stuffed baloon full of cream.
Having known a friend who worked on hate speach legislation in post Communist Russia. The legal view is if you are not specifically libelling a person, or promoting crime against an ethnic/social/religious group then it's all legal. I think that's a fine view to take. I'm jsut saying that Dodd being racist in the 80s, or what ever, is fine, as long as you accept that other people will it offensive, and other things such as Thalidomide jokes not offensive.
Quote: Aaron @ February 25, 2008, 6:21 PMThat's racist? :-/
Yes it is, mildly so, bearing in mind it was on a site on racist humour, it's a fair observations. Did you used to go to the Sowetto riots on holiday ?
Incidentally I think more jokes aimed at the Muslim community would be a good thing. It would show allegiance with the large elements with in their community, who are sick of bearded nut jobs claiming to speak on their behalf.
Of course it has always been offensive but we all laughed along until it was pointed out that racist jokes hurt the very people they were targeting. That made a lot of us realise that taking the piss because someone's black, yellow or thalidomide, whatever, just wasn't funny.
It's years since 'we' all had to stop it and be more aware of what 'we' were joking about, Ken Dodd included.
I forgot to say....my hubby's Jewish, so it's like the UN my family.
There are some who still don't heed PC. Even Aaron a few times has said ...Jew Boy, I'm sure he doesn't know how racist/derogatory that is and so I can't take offence.
The line you search for comes when perhaps the joke will offend an innocent, that's the line
I guess I take the view that if we're all laughing at each other. That we're all good naturedly taking the mickey we're all on the same level, and thats a good thing. I love Jackie Mason, and would hate to see his racist, anti semitic rants banned (the mans pretty much a Kosher Manning), I also like David Chapelle, and he's pretty racist balck/white. I think once you start dividing humour up it dies a bit.
I also hate snide, dishonest racism. Anti semitisim has just been replaced by anti Zionism.
Having seen some very good disabled comics, and even gone on a training course partly taken by a young woman with Mosaic Downes. I can say that not involving people in the rough, and tumble of jokes, and mickey taking, is to shut them out of a major part of human life.
Congrats on knowing every racial group on planet earth BB.
At the end of the day none of us are going to like or find find funny the same thing and this argument/ debate could go on until the cows come home, Frankie will back me up comedy is subjective, you won't find certain jokes as assuming as others.
I find jokes on ANY subject funny if someone words it correctly and isn't spiteful in how they deliver it (I won't go into detail but some of the sickest jokes around I have personal knowledge/experience of). But others won't it's the human condition, we're all different.
like most topics such as this, we can easily go around in circles, putting up links and backing up our arguments, because we both have valid points.
Yes I love Jackie Mason in fact he's my favourite commedian but I think it's ok when the piss is being taken out of oneself etc.
there's a female muslim commedienne, she too is hilarious and mocks muslims.
So with that 'theory', I suppose it would be ok for disabled to take the piss out of the disabled.
It's like family, we can call them all the names under the sun but let anyone else....
You're right Paul but I do like a civilised debate, it's healthy.
Quote: bushbaby @ February 25, 2008, 6:52 PMYou're right Paul but I do like a civilised debate, it's healthy.
Fair enough.
Have a fun debate, I'm off to the pub. 
I like a mass debate....
kjs
I had to slip it in before writeone....
Ah but no one mocks whites like David Chapelle. I suppose a funny joke is a funny joke, is a funny joke. it's just the more offensive the joke, the harder it is be funny, the more inapprorpriate the teller the harder still.
I hate jewish jokes from Jim Davidson, but love them from Bernard Manning (1970s era), as do many of my Jewish friends. The reason is Bernard is the Da Vinci of the quick fire gag. Jim Davidson is a 100lbs of manure in a 105lb sack, appologies to any cows reading that comment.
My son's great grandma came over a few weeks ago, and my 6-year-old had been out on the field and was covered in mud. He came in, and Great-Grandma pipes up; "Oh heavens, he looks like a little coon!" The look on my missus's face had me crying laughing.
Thing is, it stopped being funny when my son was later running round the house shouting "I'm a coon! I'm a coon!" Please God he doesn't repeat it at school - his teacher Mrs Hamlett is black.
Geriatric casual racism, eh? 
