Quote: Steve Whyley @ 1st August 2014, 10:39 PM BST

(not expecting an answer from you).

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always best to seek advice from where you want it. Good luck with which ever way you decide to jump.

Ok straight up I read the first five pages and this has a big problems.

First of all it's boots and braces. You seem to have no confidence in your material, the lead character says something, then he repeats it in VO and then we get a blindingly obvious fantasy sequence to ram it home. You seem scared that your reader won't get the most subtle inference. Which is a shame and bizarre as your characterisation is strong enough it's totally uneccesary. Seriously ditch the VO it adds nothing.

As it is the intro scene is distracting and kinda unpleasant a character seemingly having a heart attack, we don't know anyone well enough to be anything but disturbed.

You see with the excellent intro clip, the 2 characters are silent we just see the hero getting more pissed off. The VO takes all the weight of telling the story emphasising our hero's frustration in silence andthat's proper funny.

Ok thanks. It's a shame as this first scene is almost the same as the final scene that is in the filmed production - people first time around seemed to like the VoiceOver and seemed to like that scene but maybe it's not coming off the page very well. Sounds like it's best to leave the project where it is. Thanks for reading it and your advice.

OK well I liked the new script (Well I read the first 11-12 pages and will likely read the rest later). I did think that there was a little too much v.o. stuff but that can just be cut down upon. You mentioned that he sees himself as a bit of a Larry David, but the genius behind Larry David is that a look says it all. Sometimes an expression will suffice.

There were some good laughs early on though. It's hard not to think of the anniversary episode of fawlty towers with the whole plot idea. The 2 or 3 kisses thing (which was also in the filmed episode) was something that was used in peep show and I feel that with the internal monologue stuff, it just seems far too similar in places.

I think (and hope)that it's only a matter of time before you nail a script and just really get something spot on.

Best of luck.

Edit:
Just so you know, I do understand what you mean about him wanting to be a Larry David figure. His inner monologues say exactly what LD would actually say. Then when it comes to actually speaking, he shy's away. It's a funny concept because it's so easy to relate to.

Also, I've just read a couple more pages and there was a thing in an early episode of peepshow where a big deal was made of a disabled man going up one floor in a lift.

Thanks very much for this. Unbelievably I've never seen Peep Show (shocking I know!) sounds like I need to check it out! When I took the original filmed production to some prod companies they mentioned it had similarities with Peep Show but I hoped it was just because they were both VoiceOver based - didn't realise plots and scenes were also similar.

Baby Cow felt it was too similar to the worst week of my life - again something I hadn't seen! So I think I need to watch some of these shows and ensure Rules is different enough so it stands up on its own.

Thanks for the feedback. You're right that there's a little too much VoiceOver but I won't be cutting the VoiceOver entirely as that was the whole basis of my idea - some guy thinking different to how he acts. But I guess I need to tone it down. Thanks for reading it. Would love for you to read the whole script if you get the chance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOwvLemkITQ

That's brilliant but also disappointingly similar to my character Stan! Ah well!

However, I at least take encouragement from the fact that David Mitchell's character is similar to Stan. Your previous point regarding showing not telling doesn't apply here (or I believe for my character). I.E. In this scene he could have just acted awkward and as you say could've shown his awkwardness though expression rather than telling us of his awkwardness - but in this clip the inner monologue makes it, and is very funny. That's what I'm trying to achieve, but obviously just not as successfully!

It does apply as the telling shows us something different. Telling can be showing but telling that is just telling is not showing. Someone flagged a book up on the site about subtext, I haven't read it but it might be worth having a look.

Probably best for me to leave this project where it is for now!

I think if you read the whole script you may feel as though my character does that but let's just leave it! Maybe I'm just too close to it. As I say the script hasn't changed all that much from the production that most people seemed to enjoy so I'm not convinced the VoiceOver device is flawed - as that's what people enjoyed. I'll stop talking now - have a good day.

If you write it without the voice over do that and then see if adding the voice over helps. If you are leading with common man with interior monologue as the USP Peep Show will appear every time and knock you down. TV is a business, approach it as such and look for a gap in the market. There is one blindingly obvious one out there right now for example.

If there's an obvious gap in the market that you're aware of then go and write it Marc - sounds like you know what it takes to get stuff on TV and if you have a killer idea go for it! Good luck.

It's not a killer idea and not something I fancy writing, but it is a staple one that returns again and again to our screens but isn't out there at the moment really. And the BBC are saying they are looking for something different but by the time it ever comes to screen that will pass. Funnily enough to give you a huge hint it is the sort of idea that your friend CB would be keen on.

Quote: Steve Whyley @ 2nd August 2014, 9:11 AM BST

Would love for you to read the whole script if you get the chance.

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I will. I'd also love for you to read mine!

https://www.comedy.co.uk/forums/thread/30610/ The more recent version is at the bottom of the page.

Thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn1Ezvl4U_0

This is the episode of peepshow with the lift scene. It starts at around 3:25. Admittedly yours is very different but it still rings bells. Great episode by the way and there's a great 'reveal' at the end with the disabled lift guy.

I'll look this afternoon or tomorrow morning Scartledge! Thanks!

Quote: Steve Whyley @ 2nd August 2014, 10:27 AM BST

Probably best for me to leave this project where it is for now!

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That's a shame it's quite, brilliant one of the best things I ever read in critique, in fact it's.....

"Woe don't say it's the best thing you ever read, he'll just take the compliment and piss off. Leaving you with your critique hanging there like your knob in the wind."

really, really good but not quite perfect.

"Nice one now drop the critique bomb, like an IDF F16 targetting Palestinian school of self esteem."

"I thought we didn't do antiZionist stuff?"

"Shut up you're sounding schizophrenic!"

"Or mental health jokes"

"Shut up!"

You see you're VO is in the same tone as the actual character its not adding anything. It's only reinforcing the existing action when it should be more like another character. The unreliable narrator who puts a new spin on the action.

"Nice but you forgot to add paradigm"

"What does paradigm mean?"

"I don't know but it's got loads of syllables and a silent g, it makes you sound really clever like you know what you're talking about"

The unreliable narrator is an essential paradigm.

"Nice one you dropped the bomb on that one"

"Like a psychotic Israeli pilot with Aspergers syndrome!"

"F**k off!"