Quote: Tony Cowards @ February 4 2010, 10:35 AM GMT

I would guess, and this is just a theory, that this is because a lot of creativity, and especially comedy, is about challenging conventions and seeing things in a different way, where as conservatism is, well, conservative and about maintaining the status quo.

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That may be true, Tony, but the conventions of comedy have been, for a long time a lazy left-liberal default and comedians, far from challenging it, merely conform to it. Among this default position are anti-Americanism, anti-west, anti-Israel, anti-war, anti-Christianity, "anti-racism" (=anti WHITE racism), anti-"rightwing tabloids", Pro-Obama, pro-Islam, pro-Africa, pro-non western cultures (=pro nonwhite racism) etc etc. All these attitudes are held uncritically and some of them flatly contradict each other. To see how deep these lie one only has to read some of the comments in this post ie telling me to read the Sun despite an intelligent and wholly accurate critique of Brooker's programme. By such means is conformism maintained. Rather than deal with the issues the dissenter can be dismissed as a Sun-reader or some other ad hominem attack.
I live in the hope that we will see a British equivalent of South Park which tackles a great deal of sacred cows. I believe the BBC stands in the way of this. When was the last time you saw a BBC comedy which challenged any of the above positions?

Cheesehoven do you read much of the stuff you criticise or watch it?

Barrack is being roundly slated these days by the left and the right these days. Certainly the Guardians been describing him as conservative as Nixon.

The problem with UK satire is it's misanthropy. Anything or anyone for a cheap shot creates the deeply unhelpful impression that everyone left, right or middle is equally venal and worthless.

I think Cheesey's right in saying a lot of comedians are guilty of ploughing an over familiar field. This is far more evident on Radio 4 with shows like The News Quiz. But I think Brooker is far more interesting and complex than that. And crucially, he's funny.

Quote: sootyj @ February 4 2010, 9:46 PM GMT

Cheesehoven do you read much of the stuff you criticise or watch it?

Barrack is being roundly slated these days by the left and the right these days. Certainly the Guardians been describing him as conservative as Nixon.

The problem with UK satire is it's misanthropy. Anything or anyone for a cheap shot creates the deeply unhelpful impression that everyone left, right or middle is equally venal and worthless.

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Its took American comedians a year before they started taking tentative shorts at Obama and even then he is criticised from the left. I am yet to see any British comedian have a go at Obama despite such potential comedy gold as his warmongering speech while accepting the peace prize.
I agree with you though about the misanthropic streak in British humour. And that's been with us for a long time.

Quote: Cheesehoven @ February 4 2010, 9:35 PM GMT

That may be true, Tony, but the conventions of comedy have been, for a long time a lazy left-liberal default and comedians, far from challenging it, merely conform to it. Among this default position are anti-Americanism, anti-west, anti-Israel, anti-war, anti-Christianity, "anti-racism" (=anti WHITE racism), anti-"rightwing tabloids", Pro-Obama, pro-Islam, pro-Africa, pro-non western cultures (=pro nonwhite racism) etc etc. All these attitudes are held uncritically and some of them flatly contradict each other. To see how deep these lie one only has to read some of the comments in this post ie telling me to read the Sun despite an intelligent and wholly accurate critique of Brooker's programme. By such means is conformism maintained. Rather than deal with the issues the dissenter can be dismissed as a Sun-reader or some other ad hominem attack.
I live in the hope that we will see a British equivalent of South Park which tackles a great deal of sacred cows. I believe the BBC stands in the way of this. When was the last time you saw a BBC comedy which challenged any of the above positions?

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A lot of comedy is lazy - as Sooty says. A good example is the tedious plethora of fat jokes about John Prescott - a far more interesting politician than the cut-out that comedians have helped create. As for challenging liberal/Left positions has it occurred to you that the people you are talking about probably don't want to challenge these positions?

I like a ruck as much as the next man - perhaps a bit more - and I like to come from left field (not Left field) but why would I want to be pro Cristianity/America/racism etc? Many of these targets are fully justifiable in my view.

Incidentally, where are you finding this seam of anti-Israel humour. I can only recall hearing one 'anti-Israel' joke on the TV in the last four years.

Quote: Godot Taxis @ February 4 2010, 11:18 PM GMT

A lot of comedy is lazy - as Sooty says. A good example is the tedious plethora of fat jokes about John Prescott - a far more interesting politician than the cut-out that comedians have helped create. As for challenging liberal/Left positions has it occurred to you that the people you are talking about probably don't want to challenge these positions?

I like a ruck as much as the next man - perhaps a bit more - and I like to come from left field (not Left field) but why would I want to be pro Cristianity/America/racism etc? Many of these targets are fully justifiable in my view.

Incidentally, where are you finding this seam of anti-Israel humour. I can only recall hearing one 'anti-Israel' joke on the TV in the last four years.

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I agree that Christianity, America etc are legit targets but they tend to be treated with a level of venom one would not find from comedians dealing (if they do deal with) Islam or Africa. There's a lot of self-censorship going on.
You are no doubt correct that there is not a huge amount of anti-Israel comedy on TV, but my point about the default position was a more general one.

What's wrong with being anti-war anyway? If it's good enough for Boy George...

Back onto the subject of Newswipe now please. More serious political stuff can be discussed in General Discussion...

My worry with Newswipe is that Charlie is going to run out of things to say about how TV reports the news soon. Surely there's only so many different ways you can attack lazy journalism etc?

That video on how to report the news (here if you missed it) was just perfect though.

Quote: Cheesehoven @ February 4 2010, 10:22 PM GMT

Its took American comedians a year before they started taking tentative shorts at Obama and even then he is criticised from the left.

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Probably because people were actually giving the guy a chance, to see what he would do. Which seems alright to me.

I caught the latest episode of this, and thought it was a great watch. All the threat level stuff was very funny. The Stanhope bit was a tad cack though.

Quote: Mark @ February 6 2010, 2:21 PM GMT

Surely there's only so many different ways you can attack lazy journalism etc?

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The Daily Show have been running nightly for years without any noticeable shortage of material. But then, being American, they've got more to work with.

Perhaps if he focussed more on the stories than the metastories it would last longer?

Quote: sootyj @ February 6 2010, 6:39 PM GMT

Perhaps if he focussed more on the stories than the metastories it would last longer?

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Probably a bit pointless with a pissy 5 episodes per series.

Doug Stanhope is fast becoming the funniest and most watchable man on TV.

Also loved Brooker's Death of Satire comment after showing prize f**kwit Richard Madely's defence of Blair and the Iraq war on a current affairs show.

I don't see any other UK show that challenges the news agenda in this irreverent fashion since the Day Today or Bremner Bird and Fortune and to watch the criticisms this show makes and say the mainstream media is some left wing liberal conspiracy is ludicrous.

As for the criticism about the self importance, sensationalism and small mindedness of the media made by Brooker (and Chris Morris before him), they are shared and enjoyed by a lot to Telegraph type readers who are hardly what you would call left wing.

I loved the X factor style introduction for Nick Griffin. Especially the black Welshman bit.

I enjoyed it, and the Richard Madeley stuff was particularly funny, but Adam Curtis really does need to find himself a new tune. Not sure how many more times I can here the same old schtick about the fear-mongering media. Not least because Curtis should be challenged on some of his ideas.