Quote: Chris Hallam @ 16th November 2023, 6:20 AM

The war was started by Bush.

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Only after Blair gave him the backing he needed of another nation declaring war with them. That was us.

Quote: Chris Hallam @ 16th November 2023, 6:20 AM

Let's see...
1. Do you remember 2003? Most of the support for the Iraq War came from the Right. Most opposition came from the Left.

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And yet it was your leader Mr Blair who signed it off. And he's still costing us millions in taxpayers money for his and his family's 24 hour security, although he's a wealthy multi millionaire, partly down to his popularity in America.

Quote: Chris Hallam @ 16th November 2023, 6:20 AM

3. A bit mad to blame Blair for either Corbyn or Brexit.

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No, just simple cause and effect.

Quote: Chris Hallam @ 16th November 2023, 6:20 AM

Would you blame Attlee for Thatcher?

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No, just Callaghan.

...And the "low unemployment" to which you refer was achieved only by sending everyone on to university to undertake courses for which the majority are unsuitable and which rarely lead to real jobs. Thus wasting some five years of their lives.

Agreed, that was a catastrophic misreading of the supply and demand of the job market and the resulting economy. We've ended up with tens of thousands of very overqualified shelf stackers and burger bar servers and a huge bill for the taxpayer, because they'll never earn enough to have to pay for their useless degrees and hundreds of thousands too snobbish to take the only jobs on offer because they've been sold a lie about the worth of most uni degrees, by Mr Education himself - resulting in many much needed menial jobs not being filled because most of the workforce are now too proud to take them, causing a problem for the normal running of society.

I do think it's a great shame that in the early nineties vocational focussed polytechnics started becoming universities and being able to offer degrees on anything. So in many ways our education woes are all the Tory parties fault, since they were in power then.

And yet... there are far more students today than there were under Blair. And yet unemployment has generally been higher under the Tories. Hmmm...perhaps the economy was just stronger under Blair?

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 16th November 2023, 7:32 AM

No, just Callaghan.

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You blame Callaghan for Thatcher. Personally, I blame Thatcher herself!
You blame Blair for Brexit. I blame Cameron, Farage and Johnson.
I also blame all the right-wingers like yourself who keenly supported Thatcher, the Iraq War and Brexit at the time and who now bend over backwards to blame anyone else they can think of for all of them.

Quote: chipolata @ 16th November 2023, 3:07 PM

I do think it's a great shame that in the early nineties vocational focussed polytechnics started becoming universities and being able to offer degrees on anything. So in many ways our education woes are all the Tory parties fault, since they were in power then.

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You're not wrong.

Surely the issue is that Education is seen as a vote winner, so both parties played around with it for political gain, rather than listen to Educationalists.

The good news is, the current thinking is that Industry should shape 90% of content of University Degrees & Apprenterships. But I'll believe that when I see a leadership capable of doing that. Didn't PM Boris write "Bollocks" on the Long Covid medical report ?

Why does anyone have to be blamed for Thatcher? She did a great job.

The below link aggregates various rankings of British PMs. Thatcher and Blair are considered the two most effective modern day PMs. But Clement Attlee beats Churchill to the top spot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_prime_ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom#External_links

Quote: Chappers @ 16th November 2023, 8:34 PM

Why does anyone have to be blamed for Thatcher? She did a great job.

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Brilliant if you're wealthy

For the rest of us she was a despicable old bastard

The council flat give away didn't benefit the wealthy, just increased our social housing problem. They won't even let you have tents now.

She privatised the crap out of everything

And ALL of it has turned to shit

Again, only the wealthy chairmen and owners and shareholders benefitted

The rest of us get the reward of garbage services and higher bills

She was a f**king clueless idiot

Given the Conservatives set pricing on the railways and gas companies, and have always kept ownership of the rail tracks (which they've failed to maintain despite setting their own targets) "privatisation" isn't a free market. Given how this government projected blame onto it own franchise, no reputable brand wants to be associated with that elephant trap. They've been caretaking rail franchises for a time , no one wants them. The unprecedented number of gas companies our government bankrupted has destroyed trust. They're still controlled by the government - they've just franchised out the blame. Another reason we need a change of government - no one of quality wants to business with the current one.

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 16th November 2023, 8:42 AM

hundreds of thousands too snobbish to take the only jobs on offer because they've been sold a lie about the worth of most uni degrees, by Mr Education himself - resulting in many much needed menial jobs not being filled because most of the workforce are now too proud to take them, causing a problem for the normal running of society.

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And now they may be forced to take them with this latest employment policy - take the job or lose your benefits and free health care. Like in the US where Rishi lived. Very hard line Conservative, even Thatcher didn't manage to pull that off.