Quote: Tursiops @ 26th May 2014, 1:14 PM BST

So not very democratic if the electorate cannot vote to change national law.

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How about if the electorate cannot vote on having a vote about changing national law?

Everyone's chucking about the definition of democracy, but to even suggest having a vote surrounding the UK's membership in Europe is somehow unthinkable.

If you think the electorate are too stupid to make a decision on the EU, then why bother having any elections in this country? Surely, the voters can't be trusted on any issue?

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 26th May 2014, 12:19 PM BST

What is your definition of democracy? Is it different from the standard definition of democracy? Are you criticising my voting choice or my right to vote? Does UKIP not count as a political party? Should they be excluded from the democratic process and if so, why? Please elaborate.

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Answers as follows.
The standard definition.
No (see above).
Neither.
It does count.
No.

I honestly don't give a shit how you vote. I'm just bored of your straw man arguments. Just because I say one thing you label me as x, y, z as well because, you know, everyone who isn't you just follows the herd. Thank goodness you aren't one of THEM!

If we're asking questions, do you think it is something to celebrate that a party which has no policies on so many issues succeeds at an election?

Quote: Badge @ 26th May 2014, 1:38 PM BST

If we're asking questions, do you think it is something to celebrate that a party which has no policies on so many issues succeeds at an election?

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Their policy was pretty simple, Referendum so that the UK can claim back it's sovereignty, control it's borders and make it's own laws. You don't need pages of guff about which subsidy or commission you want to change when you are against the entire system.

I know that on a local level, individual councillors had their own manifestos for local issues - as every party does. There's no need for Farage to make a declaration about bin collections in the West Midlands.

Particularly after the way the mainstream parties and the press attempted to sabotage UKIP at every turn using the most underhanded and despicable tactics imaginable and that despite the constant tsunami of lies the electorate still went and voted for them - then yes, that is to be celebrated.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 26th May 2014, 1:29 PM BST

Surely, the voters can't be trusted on any issue?

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That's hilarious. It's just as well the 'average' man on the street doesn't vote. Because if the likes of the great unwashed in the council estates of this land had half a brain and bandied together we'd probably be in for a Stalinist type regime where intellectuals are shot, doctors and teachers locked up and The Only Way is Essex would be the nations manifesto.
Because most of you don't work in areas of high deprivation you cannot appreciate the shear dumb ignorance of most people. I have parents moaning at me because they can't do the homework of a ten year old child. They've spent minimum of fourteen years in education and managed to learn bugger all. That takes a special kind of effort.
I'm leaning towards either a benign dictatorship or increase the voting age to sixty.

Quote: roscoff @ 26th May 2014, 1:59 PM BST

They've spent minimum of fourteen years in education and managed to learn bugger all.

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Kind of makes you question who is at fault here. Our terrible education system or that the underclasses are somehow mentally inferior - I tend to side on the poor education system rather then the Eugenics argument - I'm whacky like that.

Tony Blair has weighed in:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/26/ukip-european-elections-tony-blair?CMP=twt_fd

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 26th May 2014, 2:02 PM BST

Kind of makes you question who is at fault here.

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Well Finland are the boys that everyone in Europe is saying has the best education system. It's a system with minimal testing and the actual educators get to decide what kids learn. F**k me what a thought when Michael Gove this week, that well known ex-teacher has put forward literature on Maggie Thatcher rather than 'Of Mice and Men'.

Watching the politicians trying to explain why UKIP won is pretty hilarious. Everything from a 'flash in the pan' to a 'protest vote' to 'we've always had Euro sceptics'.

My favourite excuse by far is that 'immigration is a worry because of the recession' - sometimes this excuse is even wheeled out by Tory politicians. I think maybe these Tories should look back to their own 2005 campaign.

Labour were flying high with 8 years of economic growth, the Conservatives focused their campaign on more traditional conservative issues like immigration, which created some controversy with the slogan "It's not racist to impose limits on immigration.

So as long as the economy is doing well, we don't care about immigration? We were obviously very concerned about it, but of course that was 9 years ago and luckily the immigration figures plummeted after 2005...

Maybe Conservatives no longer reflect the views of these chaps who read the Daily Mail...

It's unsurprising that the Renegades vote UKIP. Go into any car park and ask them!

Quote: Paul Wimsett @ 27th May 2014, 9:05 AM BST

It's unsurprising that the Renegades vote UKIP. Go into any car park and ask them!

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Doesn't everyone like stories about a charismatic leader, who united the people, spearheaded a non-violent political movement and called for independence from a massively oppressive regime?

Gandhi, Mandela and now Farage.

Obviously Farage never set off a terrorist bomb like Mandela or sided with the Nazis like Gandhi - but nobody's perfect.

*cue Lion King soundtrack*

So what happened to Hackney, RCP? They were hardly out in force for Nige. I believe he declared himself "disappointed". How do you feel about that? Have you failed him as a loyal supporter?

Quote: Jennie @ 27th May 2014, 1:56 PM BST

So what happened to Hackney, RCP? They were hardly out in force for Nige. I believe he declared himself "disappointed". How do you feel about that? Have you failed him as a loyal supporter?

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Hackney is hardly reflective of the rest of Britain...yet. The sheer number of Labour supporters, hippies and immigrants situated in the one borough does make any kind of multi-party democracy a bit of joke.

The elections in Ukraine come to mind.

It does surprise me that you choose to live there. Are you a UKIP outpost in hostile territory?

Well since RCP actually voted Socialist...

Quote: Jennie @ 27th May 2014, 2:20 PM BST

Are you a UKIP outpost in hostile territory?

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Do you mean Hackney or the BCG? Um, both.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rolf-harris-trial-entertainer-sings-jake-the-peg-to-jurors-in-indecent-assault-case-9439079.html

Meanwhile Rolf Harris had to sing a song about a man in a raincoat with an extra leg and play with his didgeridoo in court.

Newsjack writers everywhere have gone into erection induced cardiac arrests at the bounty of material.

Quote: Paul Wimsett @ 27th May 2014, 3:26 PM BST

Well since RCP actually voted Socialist...

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Unlike the Labour supporters - zing!