One thing you can say about Manning is that he was/is very skilled at dividing opinions!

For anyone interested Manning wrote his own obituary before he died. The Daily Mail have published it today. online here

Whether or not you agreed with his jokes one has to say he was good at constructing proper old skool jokes. Not that funny by modern standards but still. Here's one from the above article...

The one bad thing about dying quietly in Manchester is that I cannot fulfil the solemn promise I made to the old battleaxe. "When you die, I'm going to dance on your grave," she once said. To which I replied: "I hope you do, because I'm going to be buried at sea."

That is mildly amusing.
But isn't it nicer (and funnier) if you imagine it said in Les Dawson's voice?

Quote: zooo @ June 19, 2007, 8:36 PM

I wasn't so much directly comparing Manning with Hitler. Rather I was comparing his defenders with Hitler's.

Manning's seem to suggest that it was acceptable for him to hold racist views, because he had good qualities too.

And as I'm sure we're all aware, Hitler defenders do like to go on about how talented a painter he was, as if that should redeem him somehow.

It doesn't.

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But it is ridiculous to compare people who defend Hitler with people who defend Manning to some extent.

The reason is this, surely everybody is judged on everything that they do. If they do more good than bad then they are judged to be good people to state the obvious.

Now Hitler was good at certain things. He wouldn't have been able to become so popular and powerful in Germany if he hadn't been. The fact that he was responsible for 50 million deaths though obviously means that the bad outweighs the good massively.

If you look at Manning in the same way, then clearly the fact that he told racist jokes and offended people was a major negative against his character. But the charity work that he did and his devotion to his family were good things.

Now if everybody else on the planet is judged on a combination of the good and bad that they have done then why should Manning be any different? If people wanted to look solely at the negative aspects of Mother Teresa's character then they'd probably think she was a right bitch.

I'm not saying that Manning was a great man by any stretch of the imagination. But even somebody that is racist can have some redeeming features and those deserve to be remembered as well.

Quote: Mark @ June 19, 2007, 8:47 PM

For anyone interested Manning wrote his own obituary before he died. The Daily Mail have published it today.

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It would be in the Mail wouldn't it.

Anyway, for all those who defend him, ask yourself this: is it better for someone to continue using material that they *know* to be offensive to a large proportion of society, because they also *know* they have a big paying market for it? Or is it better for them not to offend and to use their comic talents to create less offensive victimless humour (which can be just as edgy)?

For me, Manning failed because he took the easy option of there being loads of people who would pay to see him do his stuff. Sadly this says as much about sections of our society as it does about the man himself.

True, but then he didn't hide his beliefs...they weren't as insidious as some peoples'. He was an ignorant bigot, yes, but he was WYSIWYG.

The problem with racism or any other bigotry now is that it has been driven underground, and in doing this it is far more dangerous. I hate any sort of bigotry. the only people we should all join against is idiots.

Quote: Ed Parnell @ June 19, 2007, 11:06 PM

True, but then he didn't hide his beliefs...they weren't as insidious as some peoples'. He was an ignorant bigot, yes, but he was WYSIWYG.

The problem with racism or any other bigotry now is that it has been driven underground, and in doing this it is far more dangerous. I hate any sort of bigotry. the only people we should all join against is idiots.

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Actually, that should read 'are idiots'.

Join against me.

That obituary stinks of bitterness, unrepentant till the end. And I don't believe for a second that the Queen would have told him "how much she liked (his) act" in any way other than politeness.

I bet Philip liked him.

I wonder how many of you were REALLY offended by Bernard Manning, or just think you should be.

I also wonder how many of you have only seen a few clips of his act from TV programmes about racist commedians, etc.?

There isn't anyone on this forum who is LESS right wing than me, I used to be a member of the Communist Party and the Anti-Nazi League but i'm not offended by BM's material - principally because he was a comedian and not a social worker.

Most people are hateful. If you look into your own heart you'll see a few hard rocks of hate, sitting there.

Quote: Nick @ June 19, 2007, 10:42 AM

The fact that he was voted 29th greatest comedian of all time would suggest that a lot of people disagree with you. If you think that all of his material was racially motivated then you're also massively mistaken.

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Yeah but Peter Kay was number 1!

Badge mentions 'victimless humour' but, sadly, there's no such thing. In a joke somebody's gonna get hurt.
I used to go to this Asian operated corner shop for my newspapers. I noticed my change was a bit light every day and one day I said to the guy, 'How come you never give me the right change?' He said, 'That's racist.' I said 'It's not - it's arithmetic.' He gave me the 2p.
And, just for me, can somebody tell me what you've all got against Peter Kay and the nine series of Emmy winning Friends?

I dont understand the hatrid for Peter Kay either Charlie as he's easily the best comedian of the modern era.

He has me in fits of laughter because everything he talks about i can relate too.

I liked Bernard Manning a little aswell, though in small doses.

Quote: Charlie Adams @ June 20, 2007, 8:35 AM

And, just for me, can somebody tell me what you've all got against Peter Kay and the nine series of Emmy winning Friends?

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Well, it's just opinion... and preference. Although I'm sure there are some here that would be able to list why.

Quote: zooo @ June 19, 2007, 8:50 PM

That is mildly amusing.
But isn't it nicer (and funnier) if you imagine it said in Les Dawson's voice?

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Hmmm... it's definitely funnier if I imagine it in Ronald Reagan's voice.

I don't like Peter Kay for two reasons

1. He's rich
2. I'm bitter

Bernard Manning told jokes. Some found them offensive, some did not. I cant comment on whether people found his humour offensive as I am not a victim of anything he done except maybe his sexist stuff, so I can have an opinion on that. I was not offended. I dont seek out to watch BM he is not my type of humour. Jim Davidson in his hey day said some pretty racist stuff. I dont like JD either. The difference is JD stopped. BM continued.
I think if someone says something in an abusive way then that is intolerable. Can humour in some instances take it to another level.. Eg. The ethnic guy in The Simpsons. Apoo. Is that racist?
How about the way Mr Gervais acts with the guy in the wheelchair. Is that demogatory.
Little Britain with fat fighters, Marjory who always asks the asian woman "Can you say again". Is that racist.
Where is the line drawn.
My understanding of BM is I could not really care for him in one way or the other. Was he racist, well we will need to ask those who are on the recieving end of his jokes. If those people deem him a racist, then yes he is.

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