Quote: chipolata @ May 19 2009, 2:43 PM BST

I was referring to the point about New Labour made by Maurice Minor.

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Which? I can't see any mention of New Labour. Not in the post you were quoting anyway. He was talking about future positioning of the parties, not present.

Quote: Maurice Minor @ May 19 2009, 2:42 PM BST

Devolution mystifies me: why Labour want it and why the Scots want it. They want independence from England for what? To link up with someone else or plunge headlong into the EU. It's just racism against the English. I feel oppressed.

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Agreed.

Quote: oldcowgrazing @ May 19 2009, 3:26 PM BST

How about Anne Widdecombe? Didn't fancy her politics much but she seems incorruptible

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Her name's been mentioned. I'd certainly support her.

Quote: Yellows 586 @ May 19 2009, 3:33 PM BST

Wasn't that Michael Martin?

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Quote: Maurice Minor @ May 19 2009, 2:33 PM BST

In many ways, the experience of Labour in opposition against Major will have caused this: they won in 1997 by ramping up the image of corrupt and sleazy Tories and promised a new deal and honesty, integrity and other sanctimonious sleight-of-hand waffle in the manifesto. Well that went well didn't it? By setting such high standards they've made their downfall all the greater. If there's any voter apathy its been caused by the exposure of Labour as just as self-serving and morally bankrupt as anybody else.

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Quote: Aaron @ May 19 2009, 4:29 PM BST

Which? I can't see any mention of New Labour.

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Quote: chipolata @ May 19 2009, 3:45 PM BST

Damn you! Did you just alter the figure as I was posting???

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As you've quoted him, he altered it before you'd even opened the quote page, not as you were posting!

Quote: chipolata @ May 19 2009, 2:36 PM BST

And in fifteen years time we'll be talking about the deeply sleezy and corrupt David Camerob/George Osbourne administrations, and how they're going to get wiped out at the next election. It's nice that you still adhere to this Labour/Tory divide, but there really isn't much difference between any of them.

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I think there is a divide - it was Labour who so publicly took the high ground and promised so much, and it was certainly Labour who started to slice up the UK. Like I say, they're hoist by their own petard...

As for proper policy, well the recession has neatly marked out some big differences.

Quote: Maurice Minor @ May 19 2009, 4:52 PM BST

I think there is a divide - it was Labour who so publicly took the high ground and promised so much, and it was certainly Labour who started to slice up the UK. Like I say, they're hoist by their own petard...

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Yes, and the Tories will be blathering about the same things at the next election. And they too will be hoist by their own petard. At which point Labour will start promising to clean up government. And when they get in, they won't and will be hoist by their own petard. at which point Tory will promise to clean up politics, get in, and be hoist by their own petard. At which point... I'll probably be dead and will no longer care.

Oh they proably will and the wheel may well fall off that, but they haven't had a chance yet.

Sleaze/corruption/MPs doinking secretaries.. all very interesting, and they may all be as ineffectual as each other.. whoever you vote for, the Government get in... But whilst all this peripheral stuff is being argued about there are real changes of afoot - the economy, Europe and civil liberties for example. These are areas of real difference and have nothing to do with moats, mock Tudor beams or HobNobs.