Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 4th October 2017, 7:35 PM

Here is what everyone is thinking: if that figure is just 1 above 0, then some poor child was needlessly killed by a misguided deluded egotistical person who told themself guns are fun.

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Technically they were killed by the criminal negligence of a gun owner, or an intentional act by a criminal, but I understand the point that you're trying to make. Any loss of innocent life is a tragedy and it's a worthwhile effort to reduce such loss of life, but sometimes it's just not feasible to do so. I could reduce the number of highway deaths by reducing the speed limit to 1 MPH, but that's not feasible. Nor would it make any sense to reduce drownings by outlawing swimming pools. Likewise, as I've said before, I could cut the murder numbers to near zero by assigning every citizen a personal bodyguard, or removing every firearm in the country, but it's just not workable, and there would be considerable side effects.

Our best option would be to train children how to safely act around guns. My 6-year-old grandson owns his own child-size rifle and he would never handle a weapon without the approval and supervision of an adult. If he saw another kid with a gun he'd be out of the room in a flash.

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 4th October 2017, 7:35 PM

A grave stone marks that short life and no one cares.

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Absolutely untrue.

Quote: DaButt @ 4th October 2017, 7:12 PM

1) Self defense
Self-preservation is a human being's #1 instinct/priority. Killing or maiming in the course of self-defense is completely acceptable.

2) Hunting
Hunting is as old as mankind. None of us would be here without it. It's legal and ethically more defensible than buying a burger that was made from an animal that someone else killed and butchered.

5) Killing varmints (coyotes, feral hogs, etc.)
Self-preservation is a human being's #1 instinct/priority. Killing or maiming in the course of self-defense is completely acceptable, and there are a number of creatures such as bears, alligators, poisonous snakes, mountain lions, coyotes and wolves which pose a threat to human life in this country. The killing of destructive, invasive species like feral hogs is often encouraged by the government. The last I checked, my state would pay a small bounty for every hog tail that was turned in.

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1. I have never in 50 years been threatened by anyone with a weapon, seen one or heard one.
2. I buy all my food from the supermaket , thereby negating the need to hunt.
3. Pest cotrol is carried out by specialist contractors employed by local authority, without the use of live ammunition.

Quote: paulted @ 4th October 2017, 10:12 PM

1. I have never in 50 years been threatened by anyone with a weapon, seen one.../

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You've never even seen one? Never been to an airport with armed police...never seen one in a shop window, or in a museum...on a farm...Buckingham Palace, or lots of other places in London?

Many apologies, Police and Soldiers carry weapons legitimately

Quote: paulted @ 4th October 2017, 10:12 PM

1. I have never in 50 years been threatened by anyone with a weapon, seen one or heard one.

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I've been in some hairy situations where I wish I'd been carrying, but so far the only person who has pointed a gun at me was a police officer. That was no fun.

I see guns every time I see a cop, but I know that I'm surrounded by concealed handguns when I'm in public.

I hear guns whenever the nearby military range is conducting training. Popopopopopopop.

Quote: paulted @ 4th October 2017, 10:12 PM

2. I buy all my food from the supermaket , thereby negating the need to hunt.

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I buy most of my food at the supermarket, with the exception of the occasional wild animal. I feel better about eating animals that I've killed and cleaned myself than the packaged stuff at the store.

Quote: paulted @ 4th October 2017, 10:12 PM

3. Pest cotrol is carried out by specialist contractors employed by local authority, without the use of live ammunition.

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You probably don't have many dangerous animals in your neck of the woods, but they're only a block away from my house. Ever seen a sign like this in your neighborhood?

Quote: paulted @ 4th October 2017, 10:28 PM

Many apologies, Police and Soldiers carry weapons legitimately

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And so do American citizens.

Aw, it just wants a cuddle.

I remember holidays to Ireland in the 80s when we would go North and be driving through checkpoints with armed guards in Belfast. There was never a problem getting through but it did involve soldiers carrying big guns peering in to the car and as a child that was scary but now I'm older I know it was a British registered car and they were British soldiers so it wasn't as edgy as I thought. The squadies were probably just a few years older than me.

Driving around the suburbs would have been edgy but thankfully my dad wasn't a fruitcake.

Quote: zooo @ 4th October 2017, 10:41 PM

Aw, it just wants a cuddle.

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This happened 5 miles from my house while I lived in urban Orange County, California:

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Mountain-lion-attacks-kill-1-injure-1-Orange-2814215.php

Aw, they just didn't cuddle it right.

Quote: DaButt @ 4th October 2017, 5:50 PM

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Well that shows up the American mentality.

350 million guns between 330 million people?????

Quote: Chappers @ 4th October 2017, 11:32 PM

350 million guns between 330 million people?????

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It's the land of opportunity! And nobody has to bother with sharing a gun.

Interesting! Just 3% of adults own half of America's guns.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/09/19/just-three-percent-of-adults-own-half-of-americas-guns/

(How many does Dabutt have?)

Quote: zooo @ 5th October 2017, 1:25 PM

(How many does Dabutt have?)

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My answer to that question will always be "not enough."

I own six: a .38 Special revolver, a .40 pistol, a .22 rifle, a .223 AR-15, a .308 rifle, and a 12-gauge shotgun. I'm planning to eventually buy a .45 pistol and some sort of AK variant. After that, who knows?

I have my doubts about that survey. A bunch of Ivy League professors who almost certainly don't own guns take a poll (paid for by anti-gun groups) of 0.0012% of Americans and decide that there are about 100 million fewer guns than other polls have found and then take it a step further and say that most of the guns are owned by a tiny fraction of Americans. Seems a little too good to be true for the anti-gun crowd.

The push for heavy restrictions on gun control began during the Clinton administration in the early 90s. Gun sales and concealed carry permits have skyrocketed since then, but polls show that the number of Americans who own guns has diminished. I think it's very likely that wary Americans have clammed up about gun ownership because they're worried that their words could result in confiscation or arrest somewhere down the road. God knows how many firearms and crates of ammunition are buried on private property "just in case."

All new gun sales are conducted through a licensed dealer and there are background checks, etc. But what does the ATF consider a firearm? In the case of an AR-15, it's only the lower receiver. That's the part that houses the trigger assembly, so it's the only piece that carries a serial number and is controlled. The barrel, stock, magazine and other parts are not controlled. You can buy lower receivers ($50) that are 80% completed that are not controlled, since they are not considered a functional firearm. With simple tools like a drill and router, you can drill out the 80% lower and the result will be a functional firearm that you can complete with a barrel, etc. As far as I know, the government doesn't track such weapons, so there are an unknown number of off-the-books AR-15s out there.

So children own the other half? Things are worse than I thought over there.

Quote: zooo @ 5th October 2017, 1:25 PM

Interesting! Just 3% of adults own half of America's guns.

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An AK47, for when you absolutely positively must put 50 holes in a burglar.