Quote: Kenneth @ 4th October 2017, 3:24 PM

There is no argument. Just a nation of gun-lovers, too stupid, too brainwashed to see that guns cause carnage.

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Argument lost. Again.

Quote: Kenneth @ 4th October 2017, 3:24 PM

Doors wouldn't be kicked down (the way your military does things in the Middle East). You'd start with voluntary handovers.

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How did that work out in Australia? I believe somewhere in the neighborhood of 20%-40% of firearms were voluntarily turned in. That's not exactly compliance, and you didn't even have the pesky Second Amendment to get in the way.

Quote: Kenneth @ 4th October 2017, 3:24 PM

You'll protest: "But the gangs, drug dealers and criminals will keep their guns, so we will lose our Constitutional right to bear arms to defend ourselves and everyone will suffer." That's when your military and police can start kicking down doors, to confiscate guns from bad guys.

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And I would be proven to be absolutely correct, except for the fact that most of the bad guys would have been good guys until a politician deprived them of their rights. So heavily armed police and troops would have to raid millions of houses and the result would be bloodshed on an unbelievable scale.

Quote: Kenneth @ 4th October 2017, 3:24 PM

Meanwhile, ban all gun and ammo sales, and melt down every confiscated gun. Future generations will suffer fewer gun deaths. It's your choice.

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My fellow Americans and I choose "no."

Look, if it were easy to solve our gun crime problem, it would have been done by now, but it's not easy at all. But here's a video for anyone who thinks it would be easy:

A five year old child shot himself while playing with his father's gun today. 500 children a year die by playing with loaded guns.
So another 2 or 3 innocent children will die tomorrow because there are live guns accessible.

Quote: zooo @ 4th October 2017, 4:33 PM

Obviously I've no idea if those numbers are accurate. And I'm sure Dabutt will swoop in and say it's all lies.

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Let's just go with "intentionally misleading."

There are no reliable statistics or records of gun ownership in the United States. It's all self-reported, and as political demands for gun control have ramped up over the last 25 years, the number of people willing to self-identify as gun owners has fallen, even though firearm sales are at record levels.

Notorious gun hater Michael Moore is also wrong in stating that almost 90% of Americans want stronger gun control. The actual figure is essentially 100%. But it doesn't mean that Americans want sweeping gun bans, nor confiscations. They want guns to be kept out of the hands of terrorists and criminals and the mentally ill. They want criminals who use guns to be punished severely. But they don't want laws that will target law-abiding gun owners while not addressing the actual gun criminals. They don't want the average American to be disarmed, be it all at once or little by little.

Quote: zooo @ 4th October 2017, 4:33 PM

But the whole gun culture thing seems to be largely about money and the NRA controlling the government with their huge donations. Pretty disgusting.

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The NRA's influence is greatly overstated. They spend something like $50 million per year in defense of Americans' Second Amendment rights. Labor unions, on the other hand, spend about $1.5 billion on their own cause.

NRA spending is a drop in the political bucket. The real reason that they are so powerful and have money to spend is because Americans realize that their constitutional rights are under attack and they want to fight back against government attempts to disarm them. I donated to the NRA long before I ever owned a firearm. Whenever politicians would come up with another harebrained plan to "do something" about guns, I would open my checkbook and pay for a year's membership. It's hard to tell what will happen in upcoming months with a Republican president and majority in Washington, but if I see a coordinated campaign to pass onerous gun legislation, then I'll join a coordinated campaign to fight against it.

Quote: Chappers @ 4th October 2017, 4:38 PM

I think you've been reading Comedywriter Dude too much.

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What does anyone need a gun for? If someone can tell me any other practical use for one besides the obvious I'm all ears

I really hope Trump doesn't have one.

Quote: paulted @ 4th October 2017, 6:12 PM

...I'm all ears

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Funnily enough, so is this bozo.
Neil McCabe of 'Armed America Radio'.

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 4th October 2017, 6:07 PM

500 children a year die by playing with loaded guns.

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No they don't. Here are the actual figures from the government's Center for Disease Control:

And it should be noted that there are multiple laws governing the access of children to firearms, the proper storage of guns, etc.

Quote: paulted @ 4th October 2017, 6:12 PM

What does anyone need a gun for? If someone can tell me any other practical use for one besides the obvious I'm all ears

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Off the top of my head:

1) Self defense
2) Hunting
3) Sport (target) shooting
4) Antique collection
5) Killing varmints (coyotes, feral hogs, etc.)

Quote: zooo @ 4th October 2017, 6:16 PM

I really hope Trump doesn't have one.

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I'd reckon that the likelihood that he owns firearms is close to 100%.

My mistake, I didn't know there were laws against children getting hold of guns, so it can't happen.
The hundreds of American newspaper articles must all be making it up
Once again me and you read different things.

Quote: DaButt @ 4th October 2017, 6:48 PM

No they don't. Here are the actual figures from the government's Center for Disease Control:

And it should be noted that there are multiple laws governing the access of children to firearms, the proper storage of guns, etc.

Off the top of my head:

1) Self defense
2) Hunting
3) Sport (target) shooting
4) Antique collection
5) Killing varmints (coyotes, feral hogs, etc.)

I'd reckon that the likelihood that he owns firearms is close to 100%.

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Points 1,2, and 5 produce killing or maiming. I rest my case m'lud

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 4th October 2017, 6:53 PM

My mistake, I didn't know there were laws against children getting hold of guns, so it can't happen.

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Which proves a point that I've been trying to make for quite some time: enacting new laws on top of existing laws that don't work is a waste of time, money and effort. As I've said before, we already have the ultimate punishment for murder: the death penalty. If that's not enough to stop people from murdering, how are additional firearm laws going to solve the problem?

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 4th October 2017, 6:53 PM

The hundreds of American newspaper articles must all be making it up

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I presented an official government report of accidental gun deaths. Show me some proof that "500 children a year die by playing with loaded guns."

Quote: DaButt @ 4th October 2017, 7:02 PM

I presented an official government report of accidental gun deaths. Show me some proof that "500 children a year die by playing with loaded guns."

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http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/19/health/child-gun-violence-study/index.html

All lies, I suppose?

Quote: paulted @ 4th October 2017, 7:01 PM

Points 1,2, and 5 produce killing or maiming. I rest my case m'lud

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1) Self defense
Self-preservation is a human being's #1 instinct/priority. Killing or maiming in the course of self-defense is completely acceptable.

2) Hunting
Hunting is as old as mankind. None of us would be here without it. It's legal and ethically more defensible than buying a burger that was made from an animal that someone else killed and butchered.

5) Killing varmints (coyotes, feral hogs, etc.)
Self-preservation is a human being's #1 instinct/priority. Killing or maiming in the course of self-defense is completely acceptable, and there are a number of creatures such as bears, alligators, poisonous snakes, mountain lions, coyotes and wolves which pose a threat to human life in this country. The killing of destructive, invasive species like feral hogs is often encouraged by the government. The last I checked, my state would pay a small bounty for every hog tail that was turned in.

Quote: DaButt @ 4th October 2017, 6:48 PM

I'd reckon that the likelihood that he owns firearms is close to 100%.

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Imagine how many people he's accidentally killed that they've had to cover up...

Quote: Kenneth @ 4th October 2017, 7:08 PM

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/19/health/child-gun-violence-study/index.html

All lies, I suppose?

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No, but neither does the article support the original claim that "500 children a year die by playing with loaded guns."

The study clearly shows that the actual number of children killed while "playing" with guns is 82.

The study covers everyone up to their 18th birthday, and the figures skew heavily to the oldest ages. These are not cute little toddlers shooting themselves, but people murdered by gang members and drug dealers of all ages (but many victims were also gang members and drug dealers), and suicides.

On average, from 2012 to 2014, nearly 1300 children (N = 1297) died each year in the United States from a firearm-related injury, for an annual crude rate of 1.8 per 100,000. Fifty-three percent of these were homicides (n = 693), 38% were suicides (n = 493), and 6% were unintentional firearm deaths (n = 82); the remaining 3% were due to legal intervention (n = 9) and deaths of undetermined intent (n = 19).

Here is what everyone is thinking: if that figure is just 1 above 0, then some poor child was needlessly killed by a misguided deluded egotistical person who told themself guns are fun.
A child had no chance of growing up and making its own mind up. It's life was violently taken away before it had begun.
A grave stone marks that short life and no one cares.