Quote: sootyj @ June 21 2009, 1:10 PM BSTHmm a challenge? Why not.
I'll just finish off Anne Frank's Diary 2 the Twitter years and have a go.
Seriously I'll have a pop.
We are serious. It will be fun performing other people' material. And it will be interesting to see if all of the criticism turn in to a positive outcome.
Quote: sootyj @ June 21 2009, 12:48 PM BST6 Insulting squirrels.
7 Critiquing squirrels for being racist.
Always with the jokes, huh Sooty? You're like Spike Milligan - I'm now finding everything you write to be amusing or insightful, even when it clearly isn't, simply because you're unique.
That wasn't supposed to sound like praise.
Quote: JohnnyD @ June 21 2009, 1:22 PM BSTI can't wait for it to be made. Let's have the scenes ( I think the challenge was not only to Sooty) posted here.
And the longest Critique thread was probably this:
https://www.comedy.co.uk/forums/thread/4806
James was an argumentative sod (too)!
We can't wait to make it, we are on the phone as we speak. Positive feedback is starting to go through the roof now, thank you for all the feedback... positive or not
I think you would be better served by trying to rewrite it yourselves with the criticisms in mind rather than asking other people to do so.
"you write us a scene with both characters interacting and we will make it??" sounds an awful lot like "Well let's see you do better then".
Quote: Chris Forshaw @ June 21 2009, 1:33 PM BSTI think you would be better served by trying to rewrite it yourselves with the criticisms in mind rather than asking other people to do so.
"you write us a scene with both characters interacting and we will make it??" sounds an awful lot like "Well let's see you do better then".
i'm not saying that at all, I am saying that we feel it would be a good experiment, and good fun to do.
well we'll write a scene, and you write a scene and we'll film both, fair?
Quote: Agent Cooper @ June 21 2009, 12:21 PM BST'Yes they did find that scene very funny because I ad-libbed most of it. We retro-scripted the scene because I felt it would work best as I and my co-star are good at improv. Although saying that, this was the second take and not the first as the first was marred by far too much laughter. We also did a third take which lasted even longer by it was felt that the second take hid the nail on the head.'
I don't see what's so funny about you shouting militaristically at people. Young comedians go for this 'shouting = humour' vibe way too much and its just not that funny. What you need are some good jokes, some lines with actual humour.
The big laugh for me is a very subtle gag in which when Keith walks in and is completely nonplussed by Mark's actions and casually just says "morning". Like it's completely normal. I agree that just shouting isn't funny but he is shouting because he's on the edge of a nervous breakdown because of what's happened to him in the army and because of Keith's actions. I.e. Never teaching his class because he is to rapped up in own little word making Mark cover the lesson even though it's clear to see that Mark shouldn't be there in the first place.
Quote: Chris Forshaw @ June 21 2009, 12:06 PM BSTI've just watched it and I'm sorry but I didn't find it funny at all. I just didn't see any gags in there. On the up side though I did think it was very well filmed and edited. The only bit I found quite humourous was when the army guy was locked into the room, but his reaction was way too over-the-top and didn't fit in with the rest of it. I think there is a good gag in there but you need to play it down more. Maybe just have him have some kind of mental breakdown instead of running around the place?
I think the big problem with the voice over is the sound quality more than anything. He has a bit of an echo to his voice which can make it hard to understand in bits.
Hope that helps.
Thanks for saying it was well filmed and edited. We spend some time editing it and are DOP Josh was very good.
The reason why his reaction is so over the top is because of what happened to him while he was in the army, it haunts him and any mental trigger can set him in to automatic army mode. The reason he goes mental at the end is because that is 'Next Week'. And Keith does something else to tip even further into despair, the joke is what?
The sound problems are something which we are aware of and something which will be addressed when we make another episode. Thanks for some positives though.
Quote: James Cotter @ June 20 2009, 3:20 PM BSTI wanted the writers on here to take a look and give me and my co-writer some useful feedback.
I write for a living but I don't write sitcoms, so my opinion is worthless.
Like Fred said: Keep writing and writing and improving and within a few years from now, you'll look back on this and cringe. It's great to aspire to greatness, but it takes a lot of hard work, practise and talent. I looked at Parts 1 & 2 of your show and it was a bit like watching a rough version of the Australian mockumentary Summer Heights High - which I disliked at first viewing but then grew to enjoy some of it. Your show would definitely look much better with older actors in the two leads and with better audio (hard to hear what was being said immediately after the narrator introduced Liz and her sad news). Or you could always write a show about people your own age.
And like Dolly (might have) said: You're clearly influenced heavily by the style of The Office, so why not instead try for something really innovative? And write about what you know. And create quirky characters that people can relate to.
Success.
I've read the thread but not watched the episode, and I won't be doing so. This is why. If I have an opinion on something I'm often happy to give it - this is you asking for help, right? - but not if it then becomes an exercise in being persuaded I might have been wrong. A bit of critique is only one person's opinion, true. Lots of people saying the same thing might have a bit more weight. But even then they might be wrong and if you have confidence in it just go and do it.
Like a lot of people, I'm impressed with the confidence you show and wish you a lot of luck. But I am not interested in debating my critique or anybody else's for that matter. Just take on board the bits that are useful to you and ignore the bits that aren't.
And good luck!
Quote: Matthew Stott @ June 21 2009, 12:17 PM BSTThe most important thing to remember, is to listen to any crit, to take it on board and consider it, but if you don't agree then to ignore it.
I take all views on board whether I agree with it or not. I'm very open minded.
Quote: James Cotter @ June 21 2009, 2:04 PM BSTI take all views on board whether I agree with it or not. I'm very open minded.
same goes for me, but I also feel that anybody reading this page should go and watch the episode themselves, but thank you, and yes we do have confidence, great confidence in our ability and our work, and yes there is plenty room for improvement but we did what we could do in the little time we had to film this DEMO pilot. having seen all of your comments and critisisms I agree with a few of them but not all.
Given a budget, more time and possibly other actors I feel the show has a lot of potential.
I am proud of this demo pilot as it does what we intended it to do. A quick introduction to the characters, with many story threads which we will explore in the series in depth and yes the characters do interact, very much so in the series. which is something you will see when the series is made.
Thank you for all of the feedback, Hope to see some of you make some videos which we can watch over the next few months, Dan.
There are already a few films up by different members, have a look around. 
Did you write a script for this or totally improvise? Or did you do a bit of improv and then write that up?
I think it might be useful to look at the written script and just cram in as many laughs as possible. I don't mean gags and one-liners (though even Gervais and Kaye use some. Sparingly they're great) but really put much more funny bits in than you already have.
You should re-write or get rid of the grieving pupil scene too - it was so David Brent cheering up Dawn. I did expect the teacher to start singing. Also if he was so laid back, would he care so much about her attending band practice?
The laid-back trying to be cool teacher has been done really well before, so maybe you could add some twists to this character.
Also the military guy - like Nick Frost's character in Spaced. I also didn't fully understand why he was in the college.
Are these characters based on anyone you know or have met? Maybe build elements of such people into their characters; nearly all the best comedy characters are based people the writers met, or one themselves.
Right, I have watched it.
It is obvious to me, that you two guys are big Gervais and Merchant fans.
Alot of people are, and I am one of them.
But that doesn't mean you can literally try to recreate a character of 'David Brent'. The Keith character you play is obviously trying to do this.
I counted a few 'Office' links.
Girl crying infront of Keith/Dawn crying infront of Brent.
Locking Marc in room/Tim locking Gareth in room
Chris-bo/Tim-bo
Marc ex Army/Gareth ex Army
Throwing something and dropping it...also.
and the fact Keith is talking like Brent!
Im not sure why Marc is running around the school as a crazy angry ex army f**king mentalist either?
Also, you could not obviously play the parts you have written for, as you are both too young to play them.
I also didn't understand why Keith was bringing an album out, isn't he a teacher?
....Also, didn't Brent bring a single out too?
Quote: Badge @ June 21 2009, 2:02 PM BSTI've read the thread but not watched the episode, and I won't be doing so. This is why. If I have an opinion on something I'm often happy to give it - this is you asking for help, right? - but not if it then becomes an exercise in being persuaded I might have been wrong. A bit of critique is only one person's opinion, true. Lots of people saying the same thing might have a bit more weight. But even then they might be wrong and if you have confidence in it just go and do it.
Like a lot of people, I'm impressed with the confidence you show and wish you a lot of luck. But I am not interested in debating my critique or anybody else's for that matter. Just take on board the bits that are useful to you and ignore the bits that aren't.
And good luck!
Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad a lot of people are impressed by our confidence and we be utilizing this confidence into producing even better work then we have been doing.
There is some feedback which we will take on board and some we won't. But like I stated earlier I look all the feedback whether it's good or bad.
Quote: sootyj @ June 21 2009, 12:17 PM BSTI saw the other 6 minutes and other than losing the voice over it's basically the same as the first.
It's 2 characters not interracting except one of them pulls pranks on the other one for no apparent reason. That's about as far as you can get from sitcom.
Even within a one page sketch one should be aiming for a basic 3 act structure. And the I'm a mad soldier in an inappropriate setting isn't that funny.
He pulls a prank because he's a immature bored teacher who wants to impress the cameras with something he considers funny with out thinking of the ramifications.
I admit the two characters don't interact a lot but I think there both strong individual characters with there own issues to stand up on there own, saying that they will interact with each other more when the series happens. This demo pilot is a quick teaser to show you what the show can do. The series is a lot more complex and funnier because there's a storyline through out with both characters coming to blows many times.
I don't think the whole joke is a mad teacher in an inappropriate setting, that's part of the joke but hasn't anyone asked why he's mad? (All will be explained in the series, even though there are references to it in the pilot, personally I really like the nods to things that are never explained fully in shows like in 'I'm Alan Partridge' 'Fawtly Towers' and 'That Peter Kay Thing' to name a few.)
Quote: Matthew Stott @ June 21 2009, 12:33 PM BSTIt may be something I've noticed every now and again on here, which is when crit is offered but not accepted, all hell can break loose!
I haven't not accepted criticism. I think I've taken what's worthy on board.
The reason I'm a bit dismissive is because some of the issues like: Voice Over, us being too young and the two character not interacting enough are issues we already knew about.
Quote: sootyj @ June 21 2009, 12:39 PM BSTNope what ever you're writing write your best.
I'm trying to be helpful you're fundamental undelying structure in my view doesn't work. I may not be about to write FT2 but I can at least look at how they did things.
I mean there's no real gags in there, neither in the writing nor the structure.
Oh I'm sure James is a lovely person, it's that scriptthat's kinda narking me.
Plus you know put your stuff up for critique and as long as no one's being personally insulting then kinda live with it.
I think there are a few gags but we're not really gag writers that's why we don't really write sketches because we like narrative and we like to explore a character identity and finding humour from there.
I'm really enjoying all of this feedback. Not to sound really cocky but I'm fed up of hearing it's good I wanted people to pick fault with it because that is what I am like to. All the way through the editing process I was moaning about the littlest things ever like text font and the sound fading a few seconds earlier and fades which took up a lot of our editing time and got on my co-writers nerves but if you don't say it your regret that's how I think.
So thanks I am a lovely person and so are you I hope.
Quote: Dolly Dagger @ June 21 2009, 12:41 PM BSTJames and Dan - I hope you don't become too depondent - we can be harsh critics. But it wouldn't be any use to you everyone saying they thought it was fantastic if they didn't. I don't think anyone's saying you don't have talent, but that maybe you're not using your full potential yet?
Keep it up and good luck!
I total agree with what your saying. We are in very good sprits in fact and I personally relish negative criticism don't why but I do.
A lot of people have said this about us having talent and not quit being there yet this something I half agree on.
I agree about the talent bit of course but what I think has taken us by surprise is the amount of people who have said we're better comedy actors then we are writers which we've always thought was the other way round but even before this forum I have had that comment made, even by a few producers who have encouraged me to become a comedy actor first and writer second, something I am also pursuing with incredibly high hopes as a great new project as opened up for me.
Quote: Timbo @ June 21 2009, 12:42 PM BSTBeing too defensive in Critique will induce that response, but on the plus side it does result in far more honest, and therefore ultimately helpful, feedback than if you just lie back and take it.
Agreed and that's why I do it. I want more opinion's!
Quote: sootyj @ June 21 2009, 12:51 PM BSTTotally, I actually think critique is most useful when people disagree and argue. It forces issues out and stuff.
I totally agree. You get to centre of the argument that way.
Thanks again for all the feedback. I am trying to responded to everybody's posts but there are a lot to get through. Myself and Dan really appreciate the good lucks from everybody and don't be afraid to keep your views coming. I feel like I'm presenting a 'Points of View' special on 'Back to Class'.
Quote: sootyj @ June 21 2009, 1:10 PM BSTI'll just finish off Anne Frank's Diary 2 the Twitter years and have a go.
That's weird, I did an Anne Frank on Twitter sketch for Newsjack last week! Didn't get on mind you.