Little Britain's racist, isn't it? Page 13

Little Britain. Image shows from L to R: Matt Lucas, David Walliams. Copyright: BBC / Little Britain Productions.

Little Britain

Matt Lucas and David Walliams take a comic look at British life in this character-based sketch series

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Definitely Tarby

  • Saturday 6th January 2018, 6:06pm [Edited]
  • England
  • 1,624 posts

There's a guy I see sometimes in town who is living as a woman but I'm not sure what the status is about their transition progress. They could be undergoing it now or have no intention of changing gender. I have no idea and it's none of my business of course but they were in a nightclub dressed as a woman and didn't like being told to leave the ladies toilets because the other females didn't feel comfortable with him being there. He complained to the manager who did his best to resolve it by telling him if he could provide some kind of evidence he was going through gender reassignment he could then inform the other female patrons of this and that would probably make them not only accepting of him using the female restrooms but probably welcoming and supportive. Most of them I'm sure.

I'm sympathetic to those that go through surgery because it must be a long, painful road both physically and mentally but it's not right to think you can just put on a dress and make up and expect to be able to loiter in ladies only facilities. They have to be reasonable and consider others.

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zooo

  • Saturday 6th January 2018, 6:22pm [Edited]
  • United Kingdom
  • 69,174 posts

Unless that person is an actual psycho, they wouldn't be 'loitering' in there, to be fair. They just want to have a piss and get out I imagine.
Plus in the men's toilets they might get the shit kicked out of them.
But yeah, each situation is different. I guess it can be tricky. Some places have one big unisex bathroom, so people don't have the chance to get picky about who's sharing it with them.

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Definitely Tarby

  • Saturday 6th January 2018, 7:05pm
  • England
  • 1,624 posts
Quote: zooo @ 6th January 2018, 6:22 PM

Unless that person is an actual psycho, they wouldn't be 'loitering' in there, to be fair. They just want to have a piss and get out I imagine.
Plus in the men's toilets they might get the shit kicked out of them.
But yeah, each situation is different. I guess it can be tricky. Some places have one big unisex bathroom, so people don't have the chance to get picky about who's sharing it with them.

Ah yes, loitering wasn't the best word to use but I was thinking with the mindset of Richie and Eddie from Bottom. If they were told they could use the womens toilets they would probably move in to them and Eddie would turn one of the cubicles in to a bar :D

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zooo

  • Saturday 6th January 2018, 7:10pm
  • United Kingdom
  • 69,174 posts

Lol, true. Don't think either of them could be in a room without loitering in it.

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ArticulateMadness

  • Saturday 6th January 2018, 9:51pm
  • United States
  • 136 posts
Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 5th January 2018, 8:29 PM

Well why are you preaching to us in the UK?
In the main no matter what colour, creed or race we are in the UK, we all take people as people. Good, bad and indifferent.
Despite what hits the headlines, we all get on just fine without a thought of racism. We like or dislike someone for what they do, not what they are

Excuse me for trying to enlighten you Brits, lol. Ignorance begets ignorance as lost as it doesn't personally affect your bubble of the world, huh? Also, I don't think you take people as people as well as you think considering the backlash of Sadiq Khan. Or Brexit. But keep it classy boo.

Quote: Nick @ 6th January 2018, 12:16 AM

Sorry. This could be an interesting discussion, but it really needs a little bit of nuanced thinking. You said that Matt Lucas admitted that they were being racist. He did not. Now you have said that I defended blackface. I did not.

You constantly repeating, "It's racist, it's racist, it's racist" doesn't add anything to the debate. You would do well to check the BBC link that I posted earlier in the thread.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42561815

Now the person campaigning against blackface here specifically says, "I don't necessarily think that it's racist". I'm not saying that you should necessarily agree with him (and I'm certainly not saying that I agree with blackface in 2018), but your current attitude suggests that you are 100% right and he is wrong. Just because we disagree with something does not make it necessarily racist. Nuances.

And I would also suggest that you watch the recent interview that Richard Herring did with Simon Brodkin recently. They have an intelligent discussion about this topic that starts at around 41.26

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bDLRUVhmM4

If you look at it with an open mind, you might find it interesting.

Well actually it would be an interesting discussion if not for the cultural difference. I don't know how many ways to tell you the definition of inference, but keep believing Lucas' hype. I also did check your link, I guess sarcasm doesn't bode your way very well.

I was willing to give him a pass until I did my own research behind their opinions about Come Fly With Me and ran into commentary about their opinions on Little Britain. That changes the opinion because THEY KNEW they were in the wrong and ran with it anyway. Now because "he's grown as a person" that is supposed to make it kibbles and bits, right? They knew they went beyond and above on the black/brown face on Come Fly With Me, but supposedly didn't know on Little Britain. Yeah, that's racist. Look no further than Lucas' West Indian caricature. There is no difference to that and 1940s blackface minstrels.

America imported the imagery. That doesn't negate the responsibility of those in present society not to understand its implications. And even if they don't, Walliams is STILL doing it too, even with a backlash. At least Lucas is owning up to it via implication, and not perpetuating it like his partner.

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Stephen Goodlad

  • Saturday 6th January 2018, 10:14pm
  • Mirfield, England
  • 3,173 posts

Dont you ever let up?
You seem to have no tolerance but your own opinion.
And opinion it is, that's all.
I don't live in the world, I live in England.
There are a million injustices in this world, it's impossible to care about them all.
I'd never heard the term blackface till you mentioned it.
Do me a favour and don't quote me again just to try and ram your indignation down my throat.

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ArticulateMadness

  • Saturday 6th January 2018, 10:31pm
  • United States
  • 136 posts
Quote: Firkin @ 6th January 2018, 12:30 PM

Very interesting point, I didn't know that. Why didn't Obama change that ? I do remember being shocked when I read America still had segregated schools and busses in the 1960s and was very late at dropping slavery.

We have racism but it doesn't appears to be as high on the agenda as in America. I read once, that this was a hangover from our imperialist days, we simply became more adept at compromising with other cultures and hence more tolerant. So it is ironic when some Brits say "Those Polish coming over here, getting their food in our supermarkets, steeling OUR night watchmen jobs...." But why does the country that brought us Martin Luther King, the Williams Sisters and Obama, still have such a big race issue ? Is King still revered in America?

Your point about Blackface I'm sure it total valid for America, but here in the UK our "Black" community take umbrage with the term Afro American, because British Jamaicans are daggers drawn with British Africans. Same as referring to an Indian as Asian, they are daggers draw with Pakistanis. So it's a minefield. Anyway I think we've clearly demonstrated Little Britain is not definably maybe racist. Next topic, is it funny and why. I would say yes, because it's using shock tactics, hence this thread. But that make it hit and miss for me. Very funny or very disturbing (the vomiting ones). Sick

The POTUS is the Executive Branch. Only the Congress, which is the legislative branch can change that. The POTUS can veto/sign it and if it gets 2/3rd vote in Congress they can do the reversal. Obama's hands were tied, as the Republican Party spent 8 years trying to undo/block everything Obama tried to do simply because he was black. So he couldnt give blacks the vote and he famously said "I am not black people's president". GO fig.

Segregation on record in America didn't end until 1970 across the country. That includes miscegenation laws as well (check Loving v. Virginia). 47 years isn't enough to "get over it" when each POTUS since then including Obama has contributed to continuing as a matter of federal public policy laws and other behaviors against black people in the states. Plessy v. Ferguson was the reason for Separate but Equal, Jim Crow, Grandfather Clause, and a host of anti-black laws across the country, primarily in the South but not totally absent from the North. Hangover from the Civil War during the period called Reconstruction. And more to the point, slavery technically didn't get abolished. It says all people are free UNLESS accused of a crime/sentenced to a crime. That is the reason for the high rise of the prison industrial complex and former POTUS Nixon's "southern strategy" that disappropriately targets black Americans for incarceration. Look up Kalief Browder. That happens ALOT.

Yes, your racism in the UK is heavenly by comparison, but only because as I've said countless times, UK has a different relationship and treated their black people better in transition. There were no groups created and empowered by your monarchy in the 1800s for the sole reason to torture and kill without impunity black people that emigrated there, or keep them from assimilating into full citizenship rights.

No, Martin Luther King is not revered. Ask your typical young American about him, all you might get is "we get a day off from school for that". He is not taught in American history outside of a blip about the March on Washington in 1963. In the South he's not taught at all. And truth be told, the last four years of his life both black and white America distanced themselves from him as he started getting into union politics and organizing black labour. When he was assassinated, neither side cared for him much. Tavis Smiley's "Death of a King" is a researched book on the subject if you're curious.

Afro-American, lol. Every 40 years in America the terminology changes. On birth certificates it varies based on your year of birth. First it was "nigger". Then "coloured". Then "Negro". Then "Black". Then "Afro-American". Then "African-American" (which is incorrect and bugs a lot of folk). Then don't forget "Mulatto" (half white that can pass for white), "octaroon"(3/8th white), "quadroon" (3/4th white), "Biracial" (half white).

I'm not mad that blackface is still prevalent in UK tele. First time I saw it was on Benny Hill, when he did Miriam Makeba, Idi Amin and Billy Eckstine. Jackie Wright also did blackface as Huggy in the Starsky and Hutch spoof. Granted, none of this was ever shown on American or Canadian television - saw it on the VHS tapes. However, Eckstine, who was a huge fan, allegedly talked with Hill about that impersonation and Hill was deeply apologetic as he didn't mean to offend him. He really was just lampooning him and thought the colour thing was okay. And the great thing about Hill, was that he didn't do blackface after that. Now, when he did Mr. T. on the B Team skit, he was in brown makeup, but I can't even call that brownface because they did a kick ass job matching the tone where it didn't look fake. And that is awesome that he was more considerate of what imagery he was doing, including cutting down the yellowface of his Chow Mein characters. I just wish Little Britain would take the same consideration.

Now is Little Britain funny? Hit or miss depending on what your funny bone is. I find the Weight Loss thing amusing. But not Daffyd, which seems to repeat the same thing over and over. I like Downing Street (but I'm bias I love political spoofing), but not so much the fake handicap dude because i can guess that entire scene with little motivation. Sometimes that bad girl in school character is gut busting hilarious because it takes me back to primary school and there were girls like that, but sometimes its just repetitive. The one about the parents with the sick kid in the hospital so reminds me of American country bumpkins its ridiculous and hilarious. But I wouldn't jump out there and call it shock tactic full. I think they are saying what a lot of old school Brits say behind closed doors, and in that regard it is very reminiscent of 70s Brit comedies, especially like something ala Bless This House.

Quote: DaButt @ 6th January 2018, 1:48 PM

Probably because it's not true.

The United States abolished slavery 20 years after the British Empire did the same. I'm not sure that "very late" is an apt term.

Little Britain was funny. There's a difference between irreverent, biting satire, and spiteful, angry racism.

The right to vote for blacks is a complex one. It isn't a simple google either. But you can start with Obama begging Congress to extend the Voting Rights Act renewal period to 25 years.

I just know Clinton, Bush, and Obama had to sign off on it to extend the rights of black folks to vote.
Here's Bush: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/14059113/ns/politics/t/bush-signs-voting-rights-act-extension/
Here's Obama: http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/250913-obama-pushes-congress-to-renew-voting-rights-act
Here's Clinton, but its an article you have to find: Cosby, Camille. "Prejudice Permeates American Culture." USA Today. 8 July 1998.

Abolished isn't the right term. Britain got rid of slavery, and allowed their blacks to integrate into their society within half a generation. America, on the other hand, made provisions that kept the institution going through Reconstruction hindered that process and let over 100 years go by with racism, discrimination, and segregation run rampant, finally coming to a conclusive end in 1970 on paper, but still dredging on by another name. You can start by watching the Netflix doc The 13th by Ana Duvernay.

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ArticulateMadness

  • Saturday 6th January 2018, 10:50pm
  • United States
  • 136 posts
Quote: DaButt @ 6th January 2018, 4:11 PM

I did no such thing. It is not a defense of slavery to remind Europeans who wrinkle their noses at American slavery that they had a long and sordid history of the very same thing. Europeans built the slave market and profited immensely from it for centuries, so I don't think they deserve much of a pat on the back for outlawing the practice 20 years before the Americans.

I was very young at the time, but I don't recall him having a difficult time changing his name, and having his willy lopped off was probably quite difficult for Bruce. Ouch!

Maybe this thread should be moved to another part of the forum to avoid the inevitable off-topic posts?

Europeans built the slave market, no one said they didn't. America banned the importation of slaves in 1807. Chattel slavery took root then. And don't forget American slavery was the most brutal and vicious of the African Diaspora of slavery, with ZERO connection to indigenous language, culture, food, or religion in all the Americas. And then once it came to a conclusive end in 1865 even though slavery was outlawed in 1862 and put in 1863. So began Reconstruction, which set about the segregation, racism, and discrimination still haunting America to this day. England allowed their blacks to come in the front door. America made federal policy forcing them to come in through the coloured only door.

If England had anything REMOTELY like this, and I mean blacks only being able to sit in the back of the bus, only can eat in the coloured non white section, only can go in through back doors, etc. please let me know, and keep in mind this officially ended by 1970.
https://photos.travelblog.org/Photos/142925/937666/f/8872906-Separate-But-Equal-0.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1l1oHMNP768/0.jpg
Image

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 6th January 2018, 10:14 PM

Dont you ever let up?
You seem to have no tolerance but your own opinion.
And opinion it is, that's all.
I don't live in the world, I live in England.
There are a million injustices in this world, it's impossible to care about them all.
I'd never heard the term blackface till you mentioned it.
Do me a favour and don't quote me again just to try and ram your indignation down my throat.

Well thanks for letting me know your world view doesn't go beyond your part of the island, and if nothing directly affects you why care a snot about it. Stands without reason why you haven't heard the term blackface. What were you calling it before then?
I do no favors I cannot adhere to, as my alleged indignation doesn't allow me to.

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DaButt

  • Sunday 7th January 2018, 1:23am [Edited]
  • The Lone Star State, United States
  • 13,530 posts
Quote: ArticulateMadness @ 6th January 2018, 10:31 PM

I just know Clinton, Bush, and Obama had to sign off on it to extend the rights of black folks to vote.

Nope.

Ok, we get it, you're a black American and racism and Donald Trump are your favourite topics of discussion. This is a comedy forum based in the UK and it's not really the place for such a discussion. At the very least, move this discussion to a more appropriate section of this forum. You're not discussing a sitcom here and that's what this forum is about.

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DaButt

  • Sunday 7th January 2018, 1:41am
  • The Lone Star State, United States
  • 13,530 posts
Quote: Definitely Tarby @ 6th January 2018, 10:59 PM

Anyone fancy a pint?

Enjoying one now. It's my homebrew version of Harvey's Sussex Best Bitter brewed their proprietary yeast that I had shipped across the Atlantic. Great stuff!

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Nick

  • Sunday 7th January 2018, 1:53am
  • Japan
  • 818 posts
Quote: ArticulateMadness @ 6th January 2018, 9:51 PM


Well actually it would be an interesting discussion if not for the cultural difference. I don't know how many ways to tell you the definition of inference, but keep believing Lucas' hype. I also did check your link, I guess sarcasm doesn't bode your way very well.

I was willing to give him a pass until I did my own research behind their opinions about Come Fly With Me and ran into commentary about their opinions on Little Britain. That changes the opinion because THEY KNEW they were in the wrong and ran with it anyway. Now because "he's grown as a person" that is supposed to make it kibbles and bits, right? They knew they went beyond and above on the black/brown face on Come Fly With Me, but supposedly didn't know on Little Britain. Yeah, that's racist. Look no further than Lucas' West Indian caricature. There is no difference to that and 1940s blackface minstrels.

America imported the imagery. That doesn't negate the responsibility of those in present society not to understand its implications. And even if they don't, Walliams is STILL doing it too, even with a backlash. At least Lucas is owning up to it via implication, and not perpetuating it like his partner.

Sorry, but one day you will learn that debating a topic means both speaking and listening (or writing and reading in the case of the internet). It's not about trying to bludgeon people into submission.

For now though it seems that you will continue to ignore anyone who disagrees with you (even people who campaign against blackface! Laughing out loud ) and you will cherry pick other comments to suit your agenda.

So no point in continuing this really is there. You are wasting your time and everybody else's as well.

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ArticulateMadness

  • Sunday 7th January 2018, 5:00am
  • United States
  • 136 posts
Quote: DaButt @ 7th January 2018, 1:23 AM

Nope.

Ok, we get it, you're a black American and racism and Donald Trump are your favourite topics of discussion. This is a comedy forum based in the UK and it's not really the place for such a discussion. At the very least, move this discussion to a more appropriate section of this forum. You're not discussing a sitcom here and that's what this forum is about.

Actually no, not a black American. Just have many in the family. We're a mixed lot. We were discussing Little Britain but folks got into feelings and such when went going into blackface. I implore you to review several pages of the thread.

Quote: Nick @ 7th January 2018, 1:53 AM

Sorry, but one day you will learn that debating a topic means both speaking and listening (or writing and reading in the case of the internet). It's not about trying to bludgeon people into submission.

For now though it seems that you will continue to ignore anyone who disagrees with you (even people who campaign against blackface! Laughing out loud ) and you will cherry pick other comments to suit your agenda.

So no point in continuing this really is there. You are wasting your time and everybody else's as well.

And the ignorance of the minority continues. Might as well scream fake news for plausible deniability when facts are presented and that is considered bludgeoning. And this is why I sympathize with @Kapow.

Quote: Definitely Tarby @ 6th January 2018, 10:59 PM

Anyone fancy a pint?

Got a Smithwick's in the freezer. Tastes better on the tap but not too shabby in the freeze.

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John M

  • Sunday 7th January 2018, 2:49pm
  • Aberdeenshire, Scotland
  • 212 posts
Quote: Definitely Tarby @ 6th January 2018, 10:59 PM

Anyone fancy a pint?

What a great idea.