Just popped on to see if there was any update on the dead bloke.
Race. Society. Prejudice. PC. Page 11
Yes. I'm OK now.
Bollox
The health service is being drained by pen pushers.
At least we have an NHS to be drained by pen pushers. Prior to 1948, and still in the States illness means bankruptcy or death to way too many people (including those we could class as Middle Class). The NHS is no more inefficient or bureaucratic then many large corporations. I think you'll find it's major problems has been mindless integration of PFI over the. past 10 years, after years of Thatcherite spending cuts. Poor NHS is like a beaten dog, accused of bringing it on it's self for looking funny.
How did the NHS get into this thread anyway? *scratches head*
Quote: Aaron @ March 2, 2008, 2:13 AMGreat - and real - example of political correctness ("gone mad?!?!$!!!111!") that I've just remembered:
We're not allowed to use the term "brainstorm" anymore. It's a "thought web" or a "mind map" or some other such bollocks. "Brainstorm" is offensive to epileptics. Y'know, 'cos of the seizures and everything.
Except they're not epileptics. We can't use the term "epileptic" because it is degrading to epileptics, and de-humanises them to be associated only by their condition, not themselves. An epileptic is now "a person who suffers from epilepsy".
F**k. Right. Off.
Grr.
Erm I work for social services, and have worked for an advocacy organisations. I'm confused because in both organisations I've heard the term "brain storm," used. Surely in these bastions of PC the users of such horrid language should have been dragged away.
I guess you must be talking about those horrid, selfish people with epilepsy, who have the actual condition and don't like it mentioned. What will we do with people with such thin skins?
As for using terminology as offensive. That really kicked off in the 60s with Saphir Whorfe it's a controversial area of communication/psychology theory, that language determines thought. To speak of some one in a dismissive way, is to think of them the same. Awful lot of evidence it's true.
Quote: sootyj @ March 2, 2008, 9:21 AMErm I work for social services, and have worked for an advocacy organisations. I'm confused because in both organisations I've heard the term "brain storm," used. Surely in these bastions of PC the users of such horrid language should have been dragged away.
Well, as has already been pretty much established with the Christmas/Winterval lights thing, and the "Seasons Greetings"/"Merry Christmas" in cards, I guess it must vary according to where you are. I really wish it wasn't happening, I honestly do.
Quote: sootyj @ March 2, 2008, 9:21 AMI guess you must be talking about those horrid, selfish people with epilepsy, who have the actual condition and don't like it mentioned. What will we do with people with such thin skins?
Shoot them? It's fair enough to not like the condition being ridiculed. But not mentioned at all? Sorry, but they should grow up. You can't just not talk about or mention something, particularly a disease, because someone finds it offensive. (And make no mistake about it, there will ALWAYS be someone who can find offence in whatever you say.)
Quote: sootyj @ March 2, 2008, 9:21 AMAs for using terminology as offensive. That really kicked off in the 60s with Saphir Whorfe it's a controversial area of communication/psychology theory, that language determines thought. To speak of some one in a dismissive way, is to think of them the same. Awful lot of evidence it's true.
That may indeed be so. But is "epileptic" a dismissive term? Not that I can see. It's descriptive of a medical condition (well, a number of medical conditions to be precise).
who decides it's offensive though. Epileptics have been that always, I suspect it's not them complaining, yet again some 'body' is complaining on their behalf. What about other 'tics' ...i.e. asthmatics etc? The mind boggles, we're going to evolve into the most sensitive/wimpy creature on the planet
Exactly bushbaby, exactly. I don't think that anyone sets out to cause offence. But why should we be so protectionist? I don't like French culture. Doesn't mean it shouldn't exist, just because I don't like it. There will always be someone who can find offence in whatever you say or whatever you do, so there's got to be a line somewhere. Otherwise REAL 'offensive' things get pushed under the carpet and lose their stigma, for lack of a better word.
The KKK is one thing. Saying the word "epileptic" is another entirely.
Quote: Aaron @ March 2, 2008, 9:38 AMWell, as has already been pretty much established with the Christmas/Winterval lights thing, and the "Seasons Greetings"/"Merry Christmas" in cards, I guess it must vary according to where you are. I really wish it wasn't happening, I honestly do.
Aaron being serious, has any one ever stopped you personally from using the term Brainstorm? The mind maps thing, refers more to the expert on cognition Tony Buzan (he had an ace show in the 70s). Who uses it as a model of how we think, and recall, amnogst other models. Any trendy trainer will have absorbed his excellent works (I highly recommend Use Your Head).
Quote: Aaron @ March 2, 2008, 9:38 AMShoot them? It's fair enough to not like the condition being ridiculed. But not mentioned at all? Sorry, but they should grow up. You can't just not talk about or mention something, particularly a disease, because someone finds it offensive. (And make no mistake about it, there will ALWAYS be someone who can find offence in whatever you say.)
Well I guess you'd be talking about The National Epilepsy Association, a big gang of thin skinned people with Epilepsy causing havoc. N.b. it isn't a disease, it's a number of symptons that lead to seizures. Some times associated with brain injury, or illness, some times controllable by medication. labeling them, as epileptics, is akin to labeling one group in society smelly bums because they've had IBS at some point. if you bear in mind statistically most employers would have grave doubts about employing a person with the condition. You can see why the guy who has one seizure a year, and takes meds that don't affect his conciousness, may not want that label.
Quote: Aaron @ March 2, 2008, 9:38 AMThat may indeed be so. But is "epileptic" a dismissive term? Not that I can see. It's descriptive of a medical condition (well, a number of medical conditions to be precise).
And Aaron seizures take many forms, including sudden changes in temper, and irrational thinking. You may be critiquing a condition you may have your self...
you people need to move.....sounds like you live on a different planet to me. That or you just view it through Daily Mail goggles.
Cant say "brain storm"...never heard such twaddle.
Quote: bushbaby @ March 2, 2008, 9:46 AMwho decides it's offensive though. Epileptics have been that always, I suspect it's not them complaining, yet again some 'body' is complaining on their behalf. What about other 'tics' ...i.e. asthmatics etc? The mind boggles, we're going to evolve into the most sensitive/wimpy creature on the planet
Yes those darn pesky epileptics, wasn't it so nice when they knew their place? Oh hang it those sods with asthma ganging up with them, soon they'll be wanting to take over the country.
Quote: Aaron @ March 2, 2008, 9:58 AMExactly bushbaby, exactly. I don't think that anyone sets out to cause offence. But why should we be so protectionist? I don't like French culture. Doesn't mean it shouldn't exist, just because I don't like it. There will always be someone who can find offence in whatever you say or whatever you do, so there's got to be a line somewhere. Otherwise REAL 'offensive' things get pushed under the carpet and lose their stigma, for lack of a better word.
The KKK is one thing. Saying the word "epileptic" is another entirely.
Well here really is a bogus argument. Focus on the most extreme example, decry it , and then say everything else is ok.
Whats so wrong with not wanting to be insulted or viewed badly. If you went to a job interview, and didn't get a job. Then weeks later found out the interviewer hated sitcoms, moderators, and thought the name Aaron suspicious. Especially if you were the more qualified candidate. Would that really not bun you up?
I think the argument that's being made these days, that if all other groups get special treatment, then so should white working class is a very fair one.
Yes those darn pesky epileptics, wasn't it so nice when they knew their place? Oh hang it those sods with asthma ganging up with them, soon they'll be wanting to take over the country.
......................
I am saying Sootyj that epileptics wouldn't even imagine the word to be offensive until a PC brigade comes along and highlights it.
It's similar to dwarfs, they wouldn't find that derogatory until it became, vertically challenged. I'd rather be called a dwarf to be quite honest.
Quote: sootyj @ March 2, 2008, 10:01 AMAaron being serious, has any one ever stopped you personally from using the term Brainstorm?
No. But my mother, who is a teacher, has been told that it is not an acceptable term anymore, for those reasons.
Quote: Aaron @ March 2, 2008, 9:38 AMN.b. it isn't a disease, it's a number of symptons that lead to seizures.
I did wonder about that, but decided to just say disease anyway. It seems close enough.
Quote: Aaron @ March 2, 2008, 9:38 AMlabeling them, as epileptics, is akin to labeling one group in society smelly bums because they've had IBS at some point.
No it's not. A medical (or medically based) term which refers to an ongoing condition cannot possibly be compared to such pathetic terminology used in reference to someone who ONCE had another illness/condition/disease/whatever.
Quote: Aaron @ March 2, 2008, 9:38 AMAnd Aaron seizures take many forms, including sudden changes in temper, and irrational thinking. You may be critiquing a condition you may have your self...
Actually, yes, I am an epo. And I find it immensely insulting that do-gooders and lefty nut jobs (apparently like yourself, I fear) seriously think that the term "epileptic" is offensive IN ANY WAY WHAT SO FUCKING EVER! Really, how utterly f**king patronising can you get? Do you not realise that this kind of protectionism implicity labels all epileptics (yes, I'm an epileptic, not "a person who suffers from epilepsy" - f**k off) as whiny over-sensitive bitches? Can you not understand that the PC attempts to avoid offence just end up patronising the people they're trying to protect?
And before you say anything, equal rights working legislation (since you mentioned employment already) and the like is totally different. Banning words like "epileptic" is protectionism. Giving people rights is equality.
Wait a minute. Irrational thought? You mean all lefty-types are epileptics? Well, it would make sense I suppose.
The desire not to cause offence has gone beyond any sane limit. Not calling someone a "black bastard" is one thing, but the "PC brigade" have taken their cause far too far, and now cause more offence than they aim to stop. Grow up.
Quote: sootyj @ March 2, 2008, 10:13 AMWhats so wrong with not wanting to be insulted or viewed badly.
Nothing. But the word "epileptic" is neither insulting nor implies a derogatory viewpoint.
Quote: sootyj @ March 2, 2008, 10:13 AMIf you went to a job interview, and didn't get a job. Then weeks later found out the interviewer hated sitcoms, moderators, and thought the name Aaron suspicious. Especially if you were the more qualified candidate. Would that really not bun you up?
No. I'd think that they were a pathetic c**t, and glad to not be working with someone like that. Having said that, anything's better than a barmy lefty. 
Quote: sootyj @ March 2, 2008, 10:13 AMI think the argument that's being made these days, that if all other groups get special treatment, then so should white working class is a very fair one.
And here we agree.
Quote: bushbaby @ March 2, 2008, 10:22 AMI am saying Sootyj that epileptics wouldn't even imagine the word to be offensive until a PC brigade comes along and highlights it.
YES YES YES. F**king finally. Someone with an ounce of sanity. Bushbaby, I think I love you.
well, I need some loving at the mo 
I often wonder if I'm alone in a world of morons who can't separate emotions from logic and rationale. But in you at least, I sense that there is still hope. 