Quote: Renegade Carpark @ January 3 2010, 2:11 PM GMT

The Canadian Broadcasting Company were the ones who actually came up with the money for the series to be shot in the first place. Without them, there wouldn't have been a new Doctor Who.

The BBC wasn't willing to risk it's own money on a science fiction product especially at a time when it was blowing huge wadges of dough on BBC Three, BBC Four and about 9 billion digital radio channels.

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I sadly do know the ins and outs of the situation Renegade. The BBC wanted the show to come back, and of course it was a huge risk and an expensive one, no one could have known it would be a success, especially not on the massive scale it has been, so the desire to get extra funding from elsewhere to help is hardly odd. It's the kind of thing that happens. I'm obviously a very big fan of the show, but I didn't think for a second it would get eight, nine, ten million viewers.

Quote: Marc P @ January 3 2010, 2:22 PM GMT

Well Captain Jack always gets his man, especially with the Doctor's time travelling help.

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I'm wincing here.

Quote: chipolata @ January 3 2010, 2:39 PM GMT

I'm wincing here.

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Is Captain Jack behind you right now?

Quote: Matthew Stott @ January 3 2010, 2:36 PM GMT

so the desire to get extra funding from elsewhere to help is hardly odd.

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I totally agree with you Matt, it makes prudent financial sense to spread the risk and it's not the first time the BBC has joined forces with other broadcasters to fund expensive projects.

What I do find upsetting is that the same organisation that deliberately killed off Doctor Who in the first place, is the same bunch of hypocritical tossers who took all the credit for it's return and subsequent success.

My original point still stands - the Beeb is rubbish when it comes to sci-fi.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ January 3 2010, 2:42 PM GMT

What I do find upsetting is that the same organisation that deliberately killed off Doctor Who in the first place, is the same bunch of hypocritical tossers who took all the credit for it's return and subsequent success.

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Well, perhaps true to some extent, though I imagine few of those behind it's return are the same people who worked in the 80's and killed the show. It was quite funny that the man behind it's axing, Michael Grade, found himself in charge of the BBC when the show had been re-commisioned! He'd even, if I remember rightly, tried to put the show in Room 101 during his appearance! I think it's basically true to say that a lot of British telly peeps don't really understand or have a feel and appreciation for Sci-fi in the way that American TV does.

To be fair there was regime change at the BBC. So the people who wanted to kill DW were different to the ones who wanted to reanimate it. I think.

Quote: Griff @ January 3 2010, 2:45 PM GMT

Well it's the same organisation, but probably not the same people. I wouldn't think the commissioners who made the decision to can the show in 1989 are the same ones who worked to bring it back in 2005.

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Yeah, I'd say it was mostly fans who had since found themselves working at the BBC and in positions of power.

When people say they were right to axe it, due to falling figures in the 80's, they don't realise that when Colin Baker first took over, the figures were still good, it was only after they initially killed it off for eighteen months, then were sort of forced to bring it back, that figures started to fall. And a lot of that was down to the fact that the BBC never pushed the show; they would put it up against shows like Corrie, and not advertise it at all. Which was one of the reasons JNT, the shows then producer, would stunt cast a lot, people like Ken Dodd, just because they would then get interest and publicity in the tabloids.

And people go on about it looking cheap; it didn't look cheap, it WAS cheap. It was given about the same amount of cash per episode as an episode of Eastenders. It was a show that wasn't loved by the channel who had it. Obviously a bit different now.

In fairness when did C4, ITV or any one else in the UK fund scifi?

It's weird because with The Avengers, The Prisoner, Quatermass, A for Andromeda, The Stone Tapes, Star cops, Space 1999, Thunderbirds, Doomwatch etc etc and of course 40 years of DW we've produced shit loads of good scifi.

When did we lose our faith in our ability to do it? Maybe the same time we started making crowd pleasing, slapstick heavy, unthreatening sitcoms.

But it didn't affect the Americans?

They still had big budgets, did you know each laser blast in V cost $1000?

I like those old farty synthed shows.

What shows like Doctor Who and Primevel have shown us is that the technology has reached a point where it's affordable to have decent special effects.

They've also taught us that the television commissioners regard the genre as a spin off of childrens television.

Would a British broadcaster have made anything like the recent Battlestar Galactica? No. Could they? Definitely - look at the time, money and effort thrown at all the period rubbish.

It's not a question of 'can' but 'will' and unfortunately, the big decision makers at the top don't want serious, grown up sci-fi.

Don't forget, we are a nation which makes 72 episodes of Eastenders, Coronation Street, Emmerdale and Hollyoaks each week - and puts them on at prime time. The British public would rather watch depressing storylines about child abuse, spousal abuse, rape and alcoholism then cool aliens with ray guns.

We love soaps so much, that we even let a soap writer be in charge of Doctor Who.

Quote: Griff @ January 3 2010, 3:58 PM GMT

I don't think The Day Of The Triffids was treated as a spin-off of children's television.

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Or Survivors. Or the last series of Torchwood. Probably right with most of the 'family' fantasy/sci-fi shows that have appeared since Who though, but that's only because they're supposed to be appealing to the young as well as the all growed ups.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ January 3 2010, 2:11 PM GMT

The Canadian Broadcasting Company were the ones who actually came up with the money for the series to be shot in the first place. Without them, there wouldn't have been a new Doctor Who.

'The CBC also received screen credit for contributing development funds towards the new series. Graeme Burk, writing in the June 2009 issue of Enlightenment (#151), however, states that it wasn't a traditional co-production so much as it was an acquisition deal (it was credited as a co-production because the funding was given in advance of the series being produced).'

The BBC wasn't willing to risk it's own money on a science fiction product especially at a time when it was blowing huge wadges of dough on BBC Three, BBC Four and about 9 billion digital radio channels.

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It was at a time when the CBC was under the illusion that they couldn't create their own programs so they went abroad to spend money. They also spent money on an Australian reality show that bombed, an American Idol/ Big Brother style program that for is often named as an example of a huge disaster of programing.
I wonder if the CBC made any money off the show from the UK rights? Because the show did poorly on the CBC network. It only did well once Space (the Sci Fi channel in the Canada) picked it up.

I think the reason they dropped all that cash into Doctor Who was because they saw how much money the other Canadian production houses were making doing shows like Stargate, and Battlestar Galactica. Even the crap sci fi shows like Andromeda were making money at the time.

Actually, Battlestar aside, America really hasn't produced that many great sci-fi shows in the last ten years, considering how many they've made.

Why dontcha stick Startrek and Buffy up your whazoo for starters.