Quote: Billy Bunter @ 14th April 2020, 6:55 PM

Or continued to use public transport, especially the London underground, or attended 11 premier league football matches and countless lower league games and other sporting events, or continued to frequent pubs & clubs. The list is endless.

Whether or not the lockdown is saving lives or whether the figures would be just the same without the lockdown is pure conjecture. We will never actually know so there is little point in continuing to argue about it.

What we will find out in due course, though, is the effect of the crashing of the economy.

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This is ridiculous, BB. The Chinese had a lockdown to try to stop cases, the Italians had a lockdown to try and stop cases, all before us.

Economically its hard for a country to lockdown, as you hinted. But we wouldn't do it if there hadn't been results. We'd just go around hugging people and intermingling - well the British amount of hugging and intermingling anyhow.

Quote: Paul Wimsett @ 14th April 2020, 7:15 PM

This is ridiculous, BB. The Chinese had a lockdown to try to stop cases, the Italians had a lockdown to try and stop cases, all before us.

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With the emphasis on to try. Like I say, it's pure conjecture and we'll never know whether it made any difference to the numbers or not. I will just say that I'm not convinced that Italy is the best example to quote in support of a lockdown given the number of deaths there (whereas if you look at Sweden...) and you need to take any information coming out of China with a pinch of salt at the best of times.

But 'm sure nobody wants to keep reading my same views over and over again on this thread. Let's just hope that, one way or another, it's all over pretty quickly without too much more damage.

There were 50 million deaths worldwide from Spanish Flu in 1918-19. Currently "coronavirus" deaths are a comparable drop in the ocean. Arthur Firstenberg described in "The Invisible Rainbow" how three sets of exercises were undertaken to deliberately infect 100 well people. One involved smearing infected snot all over their hands. Another involved sticking it up their nose. The third involved getting infected people to sneeze directly into their mouths. Lovely I must say. Whatever, 300 exercises all told and not one - not one - of them got the Spanish Flu. Of itself, this is weird, troubling and suspicious.

Microscope technology had only recently improved.They now had machines which could see much tinier things. The tiny things they saw were declared to be viruses (the word had hitherto just meant poisons) and obviously some behaved differently in movement to others. They called one Spanish Flu. This justified the importance of the new technology. It did nothing for the 50 million who died. But with this, germ science was born and no one after that ever questioned it.

Old Arthur himself had a long, long, history of being troubled by electricity and microwaves and he would have hated 5G. Nevertheless what he describes is almost certainly true even if it led him to the conclusion that illness was caused by these external phenomena affecting us all and not via anything called a virus involving human to human transmission.

My own theory works on the idea that exosomes which look almost identical to the so-called Covid-19 are indeed here exosomes. It is understood that exosomes are a natural bodily way of trying to get rid of what the body perceives to be poisons. Most scientists accept the existence of exosomes. But most scientists also say this is a virus and the conspiracy people say no. It is an exosomic defence against something which isn't a virus. It's possibly electro waves.

But my theory considers that exosomic activity is being triggered from something internal rather than external so that it is neither human to human transmission or electronically transmitted. That internal something - I am not going to give the game wholly away at this stage - hovers around our natural genetic programming which means that we as humans instinctively act to resolve conflict. It views the potential to acquire an illness from something external as conflict and then the exosomes activate as an insurance policy for wellness and peace. But, I will argue, it is a misreading by the body. The release is to the threat of panic about an imagined external virus. When global, that happens in huge numbers.

I am especially interested in what appear to be similarities in DNA considerations when it comes to viruses and panic disorders. I have always claimed that DNA was no more that a language and rather being an absolute truth is likely to be subject to many interpretations. As a starting point I have identified what is an obvious overlap between Micro-RNAs and methylome when it comes to panic mechanisms and what are believed to be virus mechanisms. I have at least eight more papers on this matter and am currently pumping them all towards HMG whether they like it or not. Even some of it may in time reach the independent Dominic Cummings though I hear he currently believes he has coronavirus symptoms.

Micro-RNA's contribute to risk for panic disorder

(Science Daily/Elsevier, 2011)

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110324103618.htm

Role of microRNAs in Coronavirus-induced encephalitis

(Drexel University, Philadelphia)

https://grantome.com/grant/NIH/R21-AI088423-01A1

Epigenetic Landscape during Coronavirus Infection including consideration of methylome

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5371896/

The DNA methylome in panic disorder

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-019-0648-6

When are some doctors going to sign the forms to commit numpty Trump to the nearest mental hospital? Looks he might end up being responsible for more deaths throughout the world than Hitler. What a record!

He's been very astute and surrounded himself with yes persons.He's very much like his hero Kim except Trump doesn't actually kill those who fall out of favour.

Quote: Briosaid @ 14th April 2020, 11:43 PM

Looks he might end up being responsible for more deaths throughout the world than Hitler. What a record!

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Hyperbole much?

In the last 24 hours, 163 more Smurfs have smurfed postive to coronavirus. Another 17 Smurfs have died from coronavirus.

The running total among the Smurfs now stands at 336 cases and 19 deaths.

Papa Smurf has been released from hospital and is now facing criticism from Brainy Smurf that smurfing down the Smurf economy will cause years of economic hardship and a higher mortality rate. This week, the smurfberry has fallen to its lowest value since 1931, prompting revived interest in Hitler Smurf's economic policies.

Quote: Billy Bunter @ 14th April 2020, 6:55 PM

Or continued to use public transport, especially the London underground, or attended 11 premier league football matches and countless lower league games and other sporting events, or continued to frequent pubs & clubs. The list is endless.

Whether or not the lockdown is saving lives or whether the figures would be just the same without the lockdown is pure conjecture. We will never actually know so there is little point in continuing to argue about it.

What we will find out in due course, though, is the effect of the crashing of the economy.

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The problem with this is that it ignores the fact that if we had just carried on, business as usual, the results would have been just as bad economically. And on the liberty front, if the government had expected us to go into work while our loved ones were dying, they'd have had to enforce it in some way. Not to mention the optics of a country that doesn't care about it's citizens dying and does nothing.

In short, we'd have probably still ended up in economic dire straits, but with far more dead people and far more social unrest as people feel they were sacrificed for the economy.

Quote: DaButt @ 15th April 2020, 3:53 AM

Hyperbole much?

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You do realise that Trump himself is the Hyperbole King? A smug self-satisfied perma-tanned toad with a comb-over who spends his entire time congratulating himself and telling the world how unbelievably awesome he is?

Quote: chipolata @ 15th April 2020, 6:50 AM

And on the liberty front, if the government had expected us to go into work while our loved ones were dying, they'd have had to enforce it in some way.

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Do what?

Quote: Billy Bunter @ 14th April 2020, 6:55 PM

Whether or not the lockdown is saving lives or whether the figures would be just the same without the lockdown is pure conjecture.

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How could the figure be the same?
It's not conjecture, it's maths.

Quote: Briosaid @ 14th April 2020, 11:43 PM

When are some doctors going to sign the forms to commit numpty Trump to the nearest mental hospital? Looks he might end up being responsible for more deaths throughout the world than Hitler. What a record!

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He's not fighting for the survival of the American people.
He's fighting for his own survival.
He's toddler who's shat his pants and is pointing at the dog, saying "He did it."
And at least Hitler had a plan.

Quote: Kenneth @ 15th April 2020, 8:21 AM

Do what?

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I'm spitballing here! I'm blue skying! But if people were expected to go into work during a pandemic and large swathes refused, what happens then? Companies start sacking people? Then those people don't get any benefits because the benefit system doesn't let you get benefits if you've been sacked or voluntarily given up a job.

The notion that without the lock-down the economy would have been hunky-dory is rubbish. And as well as the economy there'd have been plenty of other trouble, social and otherwise.

Quote: Lazzard @ 15th April 2020, 9:04 AM

He's not fighting for the survival of the American people.
He's fighting for his own survival.
He's toddler who's shat his pants and is pointing at the dog, saying "He did it."
And at least Hitler had a plan.

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What he's done with WHO is disgraceful and a nakedly obvious attempt to distract everyone from his own inept and non-existent leadership during the crisis.

Remember... Each shitty day in lockdown is just one step closer. To the next shitty day in lockdown.

Trump is a busted flush being propped up by the likes of Pompeo and Pence because when he falls they all all go with him. He has destroyed the GOP by making them openly fawn over him in order to keep the mob from deposing them.

I think that the individual states will bring him and his cronies down and once out of power I suspect that a lot of them will end up in jail.

The reality behind American politics now is that it is being lead by a Caligula like figure who has circumvented both houses by appealing over their heads directly to a mob of poorly educated well armed f**kwits.

The irony being that his Trumpzees are also part of the Anti Vax movement but are now hiding in their compounds/ trailers waiting for a vaccine to be delivered to them by a man who has just severed links with the World Health Organisation, you couldn't make it up and that's the saddest aspect of it all.

Quote: Kenneth @ 15th April 2020, 4:38 AM

In the last 24 hours, 163 more Smurfs have smurfed postive to coronavirus. Another 17 Smurfs have died from coronavirus.

The running total among the Smurfs now stands at 336 cases and 19 deaths.

Papa Smurf has been released from hospital and is now facing criticism from Brainy Smurf that smurfing down the Smurf economy will cause years of economic hardship and a higher mortality rate. This week, the smurfberry has fallen to its lowest value since 1931, prompting revived interest in Hitler Smurf's economic policies.

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Thank you for the update.

Smurfs here aren't actually smurfs but Masons.

Am I right? Am I right?

I support Mr Trump's removal of funding for WHO as when WHO's Spiez, Switzerland Laboratory found irregularities in the Salisbury samples it tested from WHO's Porton Down, UK Laboratory, it was sat on - and then ordered to say nothing.

Also, no one voted for it to be the global government.

In the past 24 hours, 761 people have died in the UK after contracting coronavirus.

The total UK death toll now stands at 12,868.