BREXIT Page 4

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Briosaid

  • Sunday 6th October 2019, 8:23pm
  • 1,356 posts

And what's your answer to Ireland ? Or you another one, like Kipper, who doesn't give a damn as you're all right Jack?

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Billy Bunter

  • Sunday 6th October 2019, 8:26pm
  • The Sussex Coast, England
  • 1,329 posts

I have no axe to grind either way. I did not vote in the referendum (for reasons previously discussed on these forums) and I agree with Margaret Thatcher (who was a Conservative) that it was too complex an issue to put to the general public.

However, on the question of whether it was all merely a Tory plot and for how many years it had been "in the making", I quote from the diaries of Tony Benn (who wasn't a Conservative):

14 December 1992: "My question was about the denial of the rights of the British people to a referendum, and the fact that Europe was going to be governed by a succession of edicts from a junta of European leaders."

15 January 1993: "I dashed into the Commons this morning and presented the petition for a referendum on Maastricht. Thousands and thousands of people have signed."

14 July 1993: "Today there is a motion for a referendum on Europe in the Lords. I have got mixed feelings about it because the House of Lords is totally undemocratic and have got no right to counteract the House of Commons. On the other hand, the Lords can be overridden whereas the power transferred to Brussels can't."

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Briosaid

  • Sunday 6th October 2019, 8:31pm
  • 1,356 posts
Quote: Billy Bunter @ 6th October 2019, 8:26 PM

I have no axe to grind either way. I did not vote in the referendum (for reasons previously discussed on these forums) and I agree with Margaret Thatcher (who was a Conservative) that it was too complex an issue to put to the general public.

However, on the question of whether it was all merely a Tory plot and for how many years it had been "in the making", I quote from the diaries of Tony Benn (who wasn't a Conservative):

14 December 1992: "My question was about the denial of the rights of the British people to a referendum, and the fact that Europe was going to be governed by a succession of edicts from a junta of European leaders."

15 January 1993: "I dashed into the Commons this morning and presented the petition for a referendum on Maastricht. Thousands and thousands of people have signed."

14 July 1993: "Today there is a motion for a referendum on Europe in the Lords. I have got mixed feelings about it because the House of Lords is totally undemocratic and have got no right to counteract the House of Commons. On the other hand, the Lords can be overridden whereas the power transferred to Brussels can't."

You've already posted this.

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Alfred J Kipper

  • Sunday 6th October 2019, 8:32pm
  • Aldershot, England
  • 6,217 posts
Quote: Firkin @ 6October 2019, 1:38 PM

Alfred you are trying to corrupt the laws of business here, people don't employ Romanians, they employ the best person for the job.

Not in the building trade, Firkin, you get quotes from builders and take the cheapest one, generally speaking. The Brit builder who looks experienced and quotes you a grand less for the work than others gets the job then sends round his team of Romanians he pays the lowest rate for, who bodge it. It's a very common story.

Even huge building firms are hiring cheap underskilled labour, not always knowingly - The Site Agent gets a budget and finds 20 EUers and pockets the rest himself, notoriously common. Result, British builders now too expensive because of the mass exploitation of cheap foreign labour with low overheads, Brits lose work and can't afford their mortgages. It's happening.

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billwill

  • Sunday 6th October 2019, 8:48pm
  • North London, England
  • 5,832 posts
Quote: Briosaid @ 6th October 2019, 8:23 PM

And what's your answer to Ireland ? Or you another one, like Kipper, who doesn't give a damn as you're all right Jack?

That wasn't the question so as usual your answer is irrelevant.

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Briosaid

  • Sunday 6th October 2019, 9:01pm [Edited]
  • 1,356 posts
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 6th October 2019, 8:32 PM

Not in the building trade, Firkin, you get quotes from builders and take the cheapest one, generally speaking. The Brit builder who looks experienced and quotes you a grand less for the work than others gets the job then sends round his team of Romanians he pays the lowest rate for, who bodge it. It's a very common story.

Even huge building firms are hiring cheap underskilled labour, not always knowingly - The Site Agent gets a budget and finds 20 EUers and pockets the rest himself, notoriously common. Result, British builders now too expensive because of the mass exploitation of cheap foreign labour with low overheads, Brits lose work and can't afford their mortgages. It's happening.

If you go for the cheapest, you're as much a nutter as I've long thought. Buy cheap, buy dear. Many years ago we had 3 quotes for central heating. No, we didn't take the cheapest- the numpty was going to run pipes all over the living room ceiling - it would have been like a school boiler room. If you've any sense, you investigate the whole thing befire deciding. There are plenty of BRITISH cowboys out there.

Quote: billwill @ 6th October 2019, 8:48 PM

That wasn't the question so as usual your answer is irrelevant.

It ISN'T irrelevant, you silly, patronising, old man. It's what's holding up the whole thing. Are you too doddered to see that?

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Alfred J Kipper

  • Sunday 6th October 2019, 9:07pm
  • Aldershot, England
  • 6,217 posts

My answer to Ireland would be leave the EU and join us in a transatlantic trade deal. The flood of EU migrants no longer allowed in UK will be most likely heading their way and they'll suffer what we did. So get out quick. No border problems then.

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billwill

  • Sunday 6th October 2019, 9:07pm [Edited]
  • North London, England
  • 5,832 posts
Quote: Briosaid @ 6th October 2019, 9:01 PM

It ISN'T irrelevant, you silly old man. It's what's holding up the whole thing. Are you too doddered to see that?

Of that I am well aware, but it was irrelevant to the Question which is basically do YOU know what you voted for, or did you just hope that if the UK remains in the EU all will stay the same as now.

So in that respect your so called answer was just an attempt to divert the subject to avoid your embarrassment that you know bugger all about the terms of the Lisbon & Maastrict treaties.

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Briosaid

  • Sunday 6th October 2019, 9:12pm [Edited]
  • 1,356 posts
Quote: billwill @ 6th October 2019, 9:07 PM

[quote name="Briosaid" post="1211172" date="6th October 2019, 9:01 PM"

It ISN'T irrelevant, you silly old man. It's what's holding up the whole thing. Are you too doddered to see that?

Of that I am well aware, but it was irrelevant to the Question which is basically do YOU know what you voted for, or did you just hope that if the UK remains in the EU all will stay the same as now.

So in that respect your so called answer was just an attempt to divert the subject to avoid your embarrassment that you know bugger all about the terms of the Lisbon & Maastrict treaties.[/quote]

I used to think you were clever, Bill. Now I just think you've lost it. Forget your silly wee boy's debates where you drag around to try (And I do say TRY) to flabbergast folk with your so-called facts. It all gets down to Ireland. Doesn't matter what you or I think. IRELAND is the big problem.
And, By the way you patronising shit, I knew well what I voted for. I doubt you did.

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Alfred J Kipper

  • Sunday 6th October 2019, 9:16pm
  • Aldershot, England
  • 6,217 posts
Quote: Briosaid @ 6th October 2019, 9:01 PM

If you go for the cheapest, you're as much a nutter as I've long thought.

The cheapest for the same job as you want it. ie. the best quote. It's a nutter who doesn't take the best quote. Without referrals you do not know what kind of workmanship you'll get but good referrals mean more expensive, leading clients back to Dodgy & Co.

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Chappers

  • Sunday 6th October 2019, 9:22pm
  • Surreyish., England
  • 31,165 posts

The thing is when we leave it will be like a domino effect and all the others will want to leave too. It's an outdated undemocratic constitution.

Quote: Briosaid @ 6th October 2019, 9:12 PM

Of that I am well aware, but it was irrelevant to the Question which is basically do YOU know what you voted for, or did you just hope that if the UK remains in the EU all will stay the same as now.

So in that respect your so called answer was just an attempt to divert the subject to avoid your embarrassment that you know bugger all about the terms of the Lisbon & Maastrict treaties.

I used to think you were clever, Bill. Now I just think you've lost it. Forget your silly wee boy's debates where you drag around to try (And I do say TRY) to flabbergast folk with your so-called facts. It all gets down to Ireland. Doesn't matter what you or I think. IRELAND is the big problem.
And, By the way you patronising shit, I knew well what I voted for. I doubt you did.[/quote]

Look you wee Scotch woman. Accept the fact it was a dmocratic decision. If it's not honoured who will EVER believe the ballot box again?

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Alfred J Kipper

  • Sunday 6th October 2019, 9:28pm
  • Aldershot, England
  • 6,217 posts

Chappers don't talk to Bill like that, he's one of us.

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Briosaid

  • Sunday 6th October 2019, 9:29pm
  • 1,356 posts
Quote: Chappers @ 6th October 2019, 9:22 PM

The thing is when we leave it will be like a domino effect and all the others will want to leave too. It's an outdated undemocratic constitution.

I used to think you were clever, Bill. Now I just think you've lost it. Forget your silly wee boy's debates where you drag around to try (And I do say TRY) to flabbergast folk with your so-called facts. It all gets down to Ireland. Doesn't matter what you or I think. IRELAND is the big problem.
And, By the way you patronising shit, I knew well what I voted for. I doubt you did.

Look you wee Scotch woman. Accept the fact it was a dmocratic decision. If it's not honoured who will EVER believe the ballot box again?[/quote]
Has it escaped you that this was an ADVISORY referendum, not binding? The usual silly Tory nonsense. They couldn't run a piss up in the proverbial.

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Alfred J Kipper

  • Sunday 6th October 2019, 9:43pm
  • Aldershot, England
  • 6,217 posts

Then it wasn't binding in '75 when we voted to stay in, but they acted on that vote with no problems. Now they have to honour this one, have you joined the Libundems who say it's only binding if you vote Remain? The EU bullied Denmark, France and Ireland to change their EU referendum results and tried to do it with us, sending an envoy to senior Remainer David Lidington asking him to persuade May to ignore the our vote, the cheeky bastards. It's a blimming demockery. Angy

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BTF

  • Sunday 6th October 2019, 9:43pm
  • United Kingdom
  • 549 posts

Brexit is so divisive. I have had a nice big glass of wine to insulate me. Arguing on here about it really is pissing in the wind. My mother is a brexiteer. Mr BTF, me and my daughter - we are remainers. We think Mum is full of shit over this. Excuse language. She thinks we are niave. There will never be a middle ground where we can meet on this issue. It entrenches people. I know my mother is genuinely wrong. She thinks we are wrong. Other than that we are all close????