Quote: Chappers @ April 28 2010, 3:38 PM BST

Which politician does?

To some extent I wouldn't kick my Tory candidate out of bed but I wouldn't vote for her.

http://www.philippastroud.com/

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She tried to give me a leaflet outside the (Worcester Park) train station this morning. I smiled and said 'Thanks, but no.' She seemed to hold up well in the face of this withering response... But you're right Chappers; I wouldn't kick her out of bed either. She'd have to keep her views about the less advantaged in society to herself mind.

So now we have the actual proof of what we all suspected - dare to show concern about immigration and you will be labelled a bigot and/or racist by this disgrace of a govnt.

Quote: Badge @ April 28 2010, 10:09 PM BST

Yes, that was weird. It seemed like a reasonable exchange and they parted on good terms.

I do wonder from the apology if he heard her "where are they flocking from?" as "where are they f**king from?", though. That might explain his comments a bit and his reaction to how well he thought it went.

Or it could just be a fortunate get-out clause for the spin-doctors to latch on to.

EDIT: Actually, I've just looked at the transcripts and my impression is definitely that he thought she'd said f**king. In that case I think he's been terribly unlucky because that would make her sound bigoted and the meeting seem like a disaster.

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That seems to be the defence he is using, but I honestly don't see how he could have misheard her.

It just sounded like the typical political classes response of dismissing any concerns about immigration as bigotry. Typical also of Gordon to regard any robust questioning as a personal attack, and to lash out for someone to blame.

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ April 28 2010, 10:40 PM BST

So now we have the actual proof of what we all suspected - dare to show concern about immigration and you will be labelled a bigot and/or racist by this disgrace of a govnt.

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Ach, it's all a bit of a storm in a teacup, isn't it? I'm no fan of Gordon Brown, but I do think this is all a bit ridiculous.

I'm watching a political party for UKIP. What a waste of airtime. Plus I hate the way that it's pronounced 'You - Kip'. Twats.

Quote: Timbo @ April 28 2010, 10:44 PM BST

Typical also of Gordon to regard any robust questioning as a personal attack, and to lash out for someone to blame.

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Yes, we all know these things are staged, but he made it very obvious that someone else was responsible for his meeting her. So much for the charade.

Quote: Timbo @ April 28 2010, 10:44 PM BST

That seems to be the defence he is using, but I honestly don't see how he could have misheard her.

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Yes, like I said it is convenient that there is a possible mishearing of words, but having gone back to the moment when he is played the tape on Radio 2 look at and listen to his instant reaction - to me it looks like he genuinely thinks she said f**king. He's unspun at that moment, cos he's only just heard it.

Quote: Rob H @ April 28 2010, 10:45 PM BST

'You - Kip'.

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You can't, that's your problem! Hey? Hey? See what I did there? Did... Oh, forget it!

Quote: chipolata @ April 28 2010, 10:51 PM BST

You can't, that's your problem! Hey? Hey? See what I did there? Did... Oh, forget it!

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I'm most impressed you remember who I am.

Quote: Badge @ April 28 2010, 10:48 PM BST

Yes, like I said it is convenient that there is a possible mishearing of words, but having gone back to the moment when he is played the tape on Radio 2 look at and listen to his instant reaction - to me it looks like he genuinely thinks she said f**king. He's unspun at that moment, cos he's only just heard it.

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But the context and rhythm of the speech just do not seem to bear that out. If Brown had misheard, it can only be because he already felt under attack and had decided she was that sort of woman.

Andrew Rawnsley is pointing out that by Gordon's standards his response was not an over-reaction: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/28/gordon-brown-bigot-character" target="_blank"> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/28/gordon-brown-bigot-character

Quote: Rob H @ April 28 2010, 10:52 PM BST

I'm most impressed you remember who I am.

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I could never forget Warmish John Lucas.

There has been an increase in warmth in his posts of late though. I reckon he's realised I'm genuine competition and has upped his game accordingly. The crafty swine.

Quote: Timbo @ April 28 2010, 10:56 PM BST

But the context and rhythm of the speech just do not seem to bear that out. If Brown had misheard, it can only be because he already felt under attack and had decided she was that sort of woman.

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Or that it "confirmed" his suspicions? Just like Brown's reaction seems to "confirm" suspicions about him, as reported by Rawnsley et al? I'm just saying that from the way he reacts on the Jeremy Vine show it appears to me that he genuinely did think she had sworn at him. That puts his supposed gaffe in a different light, I think.

Quote: Badge @ April 28 2010, 10:09 PM BST

Yes, that was weird. It seemed like a reasonable exchange and they parted on good terms.

I do wonder from the apology if he heard her "where are they flocking from?" as "where are they f**king from?", though. That might explain his comments a bit and his reaction to how well he thought it went.

Or it could just be a fortunate get-out clause for the spin-doctors to latch on to.

EDIT: Actually, I've just looked at the transcripts and my impression is definitely that he thought she'd said f**king. In that case I think he's been terribly unlucky because that would make her sound bigoted and the meeting seem like a disaster.

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It would make her sound a little less uncooth, but not bigoted! I've just seen the exchange for the first time and as far as I can tell, it wouldn't have changed what she said or what she meant at all - just coarser language.

Quote: Aaron @ April 28 2010, 11:26 PM BST

It would make her sound a little less* uncooth*, but not bigoted! I've just seen the exchange for the first time and as far as I can tell, it wouldn't have changed what she said or what she meant at all - just coarser language.

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*more
*uncouth

I know what you mean but I think "where are they all f**king from" is the sort of sentence that would make me think the person is at least a bit bigoted.

Quote: Timbo @ April 28 2010, 10:44 PM BST

That seems to be the defence he is using, but I honestly don't see how he could have misheard her.

It just sounded like the typical political classes response of dismissing any concerns about immigration as bigotry. Typical also of Gordon to regard any robust questioning as a personal attack, and to lash out for someone to blame.

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This.

(Although sound levels are of course different for us than for them live on the scene. With the background noise of the crowd he may have heard differently. But I do think it was quite clearly 'flocking', personally.)

Quote: Badge @ April 28 2010, 11:31 PM BST

I know what you mean but I think "where are they all f**king from" is the sort of sentence that would make me think the person is at least a bit bigoted.

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I'd put it down to anguish and exasperation when confronted by a smarmy, lying politician. But I do take your point, yes.