Quote: Kevin Murphy @ May 25 2010, 1:04 AM BSTI'm wondering if the fact that two long-running sci-fi shows independently employed near-identical series finale twists in the space of one weekend empirically proves my point about lazy writing.
Just wondering.
Quote: AngieBaby @ May 25 2010, 2:22 PM BSTIs it lazy writing or god-botherers trying to stem the rising tide of unbelievers?
Just wondering.
I going off for a walk somewhere.
Just wandering.
Quote: AngieBaby @ May 25 2010, 2:22 PM BSTIs it lazy writing or god-botherers trying to stem the rising tide of unbelievers?
Just wondering.
Still don't think it's lazy. Maybe you could say it was a bad choice, but not lazy. In Lost, it was a bad choice as it wasn't connected to the rest of the show; it was like an extras thing they decided to toss into the final series for some reason. I think it was a bad choice. With Ashes To Ashes, it WAS the show, from day one, all leading up to that, so good choice; the only choice.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ May 25 2010, 2:38 PM BSTStill don't think it's lazy. Maybe you could say it was a bad choice, but not lazy. In Lost, it was a bad choice as it wasn't connected to the rest of the show; it was like an extras thing they decided to toss into the final series for some reason. I think it was a bad choice. With Ashes To Ashes, it WAS the show, from day one, all leading up to that, so good choice; the only choice.
I would say that "choosing" somebody else's story to incorporate into your own is by definition lazy.
Ashes' writers consciously "chose" to use Catholic dogma for its backstory, rather than creating one of their own. Lazy.
Lost's writers, face with the task of weaving together two story threads, "chose" to use Catholic dogma in one, just to give everybody a big sob and hope they'd forget about lack of coherent storytelling in the other. Lazy.
In both cases, it's not much different from the Scooby Doo ending, imho.
Quote: Kevin Murphy @ May 25 2010, 2:56 PM BSTAshes' writers consciously "chose" to use Catholic dogma for its backstory, rather than creating one of their own. Lazy.
I'm not an expert in Catholic dogma by any means but I don't recall ever hearing of any part of where a dead copper basically commandeers his own portion of purgatory and uses it to help other coppers who died too soon, or ones who aren't dead but in a coma on the brink of death.
Quote: Afinkawan @ May 25 2010, 3:23 PM BSTI'm not an expert in Catholic dogma by any means but I don't recall ever hearing of any part of where a dead copper basically commandeers his own portion of purgatory and uses it to help other coppers who died too soon.
It's in Aquinas.
Quote: Afinkawan @ May 25 2010, 3:23 PM BSTI'm not an expert in Catholic dogma by any means but I don't recall ever hearing of any part of where a dead copper basically commandeers his own portion of purgatory and uses it to help other coppers who died too soon, or ones who aren't dead but in a coma on the brink of death.
Ha, well said.
I don't think it's inherently lazy to use Catholic dogma in a story, certainly not when you've put so much original content into it.
Quote: zooo @ May 25 2010, 3:28 PM BSTHa, well said.
I don't think it's inherently lazy to use Catholic dogma in a story, certainly not when you've put so much original content into it.
Yeah, and what about all those programmes set one Earth with people in them, eh? Lazy writing.
Quote: Kevin Murphy @ May 25 2010, 2:56 PM BSTI would say that "choosing" somebody else's story to incorporate into your own is by definition lazy.
Ashes' writers consciously "chose" to use Catholic dogma for its backstory, rather than creating one of their own. Lazy.
Not lazy. 
Quote: zooo @ May 25 2010, 3:28 PM BSTHa, well said.
I don't think it's inherently lazy to use Catholic dogma in a story, certainly not when you've put so much original content into it.
Yes.
If anything, the use of something familiar helps give the story more resonance, because we all know it, we can all understand it; the dogma touches something in all of us, even if we think God, heaven, etc is a pile of made up cack.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ May 25 2010, 3:49 PM BSTIf anything, the use of something familiar helps give the story more resonance, because we all know it, we can all understand it; the dogma touches something in all of us, even if we think God, heaven, etc is a pile of made up cack.
What if, instead of randomly inserting Purgatory in the last ten minutes, the writers had Hurley realising he could use The Force?
Jacob's all "Hugo, your midichlorian count is off the scale".
It could work. After all, Hugo sees dead people, just like Luke Skywalker.
It would anchor the story in something familiar, giving it more resonance.
More people have seen Star Wars than read Dante.
Could that have worked?
When I get a chance, I'll weigh in on my opinion on what happened. It was a kind of purgatory, but not in the way that everyone thinks of it.
Quote: Kevin Murphy @ May 25 2010, 5:09 PM BSTWhat if, instead of randomly inserting Purgatory in the last ten minutes, the writers had Hurley realising he could use The Force?
Jacob's all "Hugo, your midichlorian count is off the scale".
It could work. After all, Hugo sees dead people, just like Luke Skywalker.
It would anchor the story in something familiar, giving it more resonance.
More people have seen Star Wars than read Dante.
Could that have worked?
But I think using faith and religion IS a bit different to copying Star Wars, really!
So whenever they saw dead people on the island was that the smoke monster?
What happened to Walt?
I did quite enjoy the finale, but it was never going to live up to the hype, or indeed the effort of watching that bloody show right from the beginning.
Quote: Steve Sunshine @ May 25 2010, 11:53 PM BSTSo whenever they saw dead people on the island was that the smoke monster?
What happened to Walt?
Yes (I think)
F**k knows! Michael wasn't there either.
Quote: Steve Sunshine @ May 25 2010, 11:53 PM BSTSo whenever they saw dead people on the island was that the smoke monster?
Actually no. The writers did have the chance to use that excuse when season six started, but they chose not to use it.
Some dead people, such as Christian and Locke, were the smoke monster. The ones Hurley saw and the ones Miles heard speaking from the grave were for-real ghosts.
I know! When you think about it, it's totally retarded that they'd do that.
What happened to Walt?
Puberty.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ May 25 2010, 5:19 PM BST
But I think using faith and religion IS a bit different to copying Star Wars, really!
Only because the copyright has expired on the Bible.