Quote: Briosaid @ 20th May 2018, 9:00 PM

1) The fact Trump is President is down to your weird electoral system, He got fewer votes than Hilary.

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But thrashed her in the very well established electoral college system, which is the only system that matters. What's weird about it? It's a scientifically sound system which makes a lot more sense than PR. She got her campaign wrong if she went for PR overall number of votes, confirming she was never fit to be pres.

We'll never know how hers would've gone but I have suspicions it wouldn't be far off the turmoil of Trump's. Most pundits say she too would have had a very rocky ride, there were a lot of people waiting to give her a hard time if she became president.

Kipper, let Da Butt answer all questions for himself, though he's taking a long time about it.

Quote: Briosaid @ 20th May 2018, 9:00 PM

1) Da Butt, how do you know that? Unless you have a referendum on the subject, there's no way of knowing. The fact Trump is President is down to your weird electoral system, not because everybody thought, 'Hooray! If I meet a bear in Costco I can shoot it because of my right to bear arms.' He got fewer votes than Hilary.

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I think the fact that banning guns is career suicide for any political candidate is a clear indicator that most Americans are, if not pro-gun, anti-banning of guns. It's a very complicated issue, but guns have been an integral part of this nation's history since its inception.

Hillary got more votes than Trump, but that's not the way our system works, and it's not as if she won in a landslide, either. Select 45 American voters at random and you'll find that 22 voted for Trump, while 23 voted for Hillary.

Quote: Briosaid @ 20th May 2018, 9:00 PM

Do you NEVER question whether you might sometimes be wrong?

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Sure, but I'm supremely confident that no law will stop school shootings and that school shootings are a minuscule part of our gun crime problem. Our cops have utterly failed to remove all of the armed criminals from our streets, so political attempts to remove guns from the hands of law-abiding citizens are doomed to perpetual failure.

Quote: Briosaid @ 20th May 2018, 9:00 PM

And, sorry to say this because it may well horrify you, but it sounds as if your 'right to bear arms' supercedes your concern about your grandson's danger in school.

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It doesn't horrify me because I know it isn't true. I know that taking guns away from people like me won't make our schools or streets safer. My grandson has his own rifle, my daughter owns a pistol, and her new husband works at a gun store/range and will soon enter the police academy. They were happy to leave California's excessive (and pointless) gun laws behind when they moved recently.

Quote: Briosaid @ 20th May 2018, 10:36 PM

Kipper, let Da Butt answer all questions for himself, though he's taking a long time about it.

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Sorry, just finished up the weekly beer/BBQ festivities with various neighbors. Rain was threatening, so I'm home before dark.

DaButt you've got your opinion and we've got ours

But can I ask you a question

God forbid, I repeat God forbid , but if one of your loved ones was ever shot down in cold blood by one of these kids who decides cos they can't get laid and wants to make every f**ker else pay the price - would it alter your opinions at all do you think ?

Quote: lofthouse @ 21st May 2018, 6:09 PM

God forbid, I repeat God forbid , but if one of your loved ones was ever shot down in cold blood by one of these kids who decides cos they can't get laid and wants to make every f**ker else pay the price - would it alter your opinions at all do you think ?

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No, it wouldn't. Not because I'm heartless, but because I try to make decisions based on rational reasoning, not emotions. I would support the same things that I support now, albeit with more passion:

1) Break the cycle of kids thinking that the only way to solve their problems is with a gun. This goes for both would-be school shooters and wannabe gangsters.

2) Teach kids to be nicer to their fellow students and to report any threats they might hear about.

3) Increased counseling and mental health care for students.

4) More armed officers on school grounds.

5) Hardened classrooms and entrances controlled by metal detectors.

6) No bulky backpacks or trench coats allowed on campus without a search.

7) Stigmatize shooters and refuse to give them the notoriety that they crave. Hell, maybe automatically change the legal name of every school shooter to "Pathetic Loser."

I'm sorry, but 'the government are gonna take all my guns' is 100% based on (irrational) emotion.

Quote: zooo @ 21st May 2018, 7:57 PM

I'm sorry, but 'the government are gonna take all my guns' is 100% based on (irrational) emotion.

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You're wrong there. 100% wrong. Although I'm sure that people in the UK and Australia would have said the same thing not all that many years ago.

Well, that's my point. They didn't take all their guns. The people who've been thoroughly checked and trained and so on still have them. Just like you would.
Ya great overreacting scaredypants.

Quote: zooo @ 21st May 2018, 8:58 PM

They didn't take all their guns. The people who've been thoroughly checked and trained and so on still have them.

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No they don't. Entire classes of weapons were banned and confiscated, with the threat of prison time for failure to comply. How many people do you know who own handguns in the UK? How many criminals turned in their firearms in the UK and Australia?

Quote: DaButt @ 21st May 2018, 11:26 PM

No they don't. Entire classes of weapons were banned and confiscated, with the threat of prison time for failure to comply. How many people do you know who own handguns in the UK? How many criminals turned in their firearms in the UK and Australia?

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So yet again you're the intellectual superman who knows everybody is wrong but you.

Quote: Briosaid @ 21st May 2018, 11:49 PM

So yet again you're the intellectual superman who knows everybody is wrong but you.

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Then answer my questions and prove me wrong.

And, by the way, are you really telling us your 6-year-old grandson has a rifle?

Quote: DaButt @ 21st May 2018, 11:51 PM

Then answer my questions and prove me wrong.

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Got it! You're not an actual human but a robot whom nobody has programmed to have feelings.

Quote: Briosaid @ 21st May 2018, 11:52 PM

And, by the way, are you really telling us your 6-year-old grandson has a rifle?

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No, he's 7. He got the rifle when he was 5, I believe. It's a tiny single-shot, bolt-action .22 that's designed to teach children the basics of firearm operation and safety. He's a very cautious rule follower, so it stays locked away in a safe and the only time he touches it is when he's at a range under adult supervision. He loves shooting at targets.

Quote: Briosaid @ 21st May 2018, 11:52 PM

You're not an actual human but a robot whom nobody has programmed to have feelings.

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So that's your response to my assertion that guns have been taken away from people in the UK and Australia? Ok, but it doesn't disprove my factual statement. I have plenty of feelings, but as I've said, our legislators shouldn't enact laws based on emotions. They should be fact-based.

He's a very cautious rule follower

He's 7 and has a rifle?
And you seem OK with this - in fact you appear to endorse it with pride.

Ah, you're having a joke and winding us all up aren't you... I get it.

Quote: DaButt @ 21st May 2018, 11:26 PM

No they don't. Entire classes of weapons were banned and confiscated, with the threat of prison time for failure to comply.

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Um, good? That's how we get fewer people murdered.
Stunning concept, innit.

Quote: DaButt @ 21st May 2018, 11:26 PM

How many people do you know who own handguns in the UK? How many criminals turned in their firearms in the UK and Australia?

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I never said anything about handguns?

Here are some guns you can own in the UK if you must (yes, with rules attached). Look, there's pictures of super cool guys holding them! Aren't they big and manly? http://uk.businessinsider.com/guns-you-can-legally-buy-in-the-uk-2016-4

Even here they didn't 'ban all guns'. In America they certainly wouldn't. You know this.
But the gun nuts will carry on whining and crying about the evil libs taking them all, so that the great unwashed won't be able to rise up against the government if they need to - As if they would ever actually get off their arses and do that. If they haven't yet, they never will.

I'm not against guns. I'm against unchecked dumbasses owning them.