Quote: the word girl @ March 16 2011, 12:31 PM GMT

Hi Marc P - wasn't suggesting that people beat themselves up. That would be silly, and very difficult. Merely suggesting people should try harder, and keep re-writing etc rather than blame the readers. I do disagree though about who is ultimately responsible for a script or an idea being rejected, but that's just a personal opinion and how I choose to view my work's progress. I think a writer's fate is in their own hands. I've worked in TV as a Producer and in programme development, and always loved picking something up which compelled me to read on and made me passionate enough to want to make it happen. I think achieving that effect involves a mix of sheer talent and the methodical way writers approach each project/ competition etc. You're right in what you say... writing is an artform, but one I think you can approach scientifically to maximise your chances of success. If you know your target audience and what they're looking for, and you give it to them, then you make it very tough for them to reject it.

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I think Mark is so right in what he says.
I had my entry acted out before submitting; at a writers' circle, about 30 members were there. They laughed till they cried and thought it brilliant. But, what is on the page can come across as banal but acted out hilarious and vice versa. Mine maybe boring on the page or it may not be to some. And who knows? Mine could have been number 33 on the list

Quote: sean knight @ March 16 2011, 12:37 PM GMT

battling to get a job in an area where there are 19 applicants per vacancy.

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It's 37 applicants per vacancy for the Sitcommission.....

More like 1241

Quote: sean knight @ March 16 2011, 12:37 PM GMT

Like I say, running out of platitudes.
My point is kind of you have to learn a lot as well. There is a lot of science in music, true, but raw talent has a lot to do with it as well.

John Frusciante (on off guitarist with the Red Hot Chili Peppers) worded it quite well when he talked about musicians that didn't want to learn theory and just feel the music. Like they didn't want to be able to talk to people just rub their penis on them. He wanted to be able to talk to people and rub his penis on them.

I know I can be funny. I've also been known to string a sentence together on occasion but if I could rustle up the funding to go to a workshop and learn the theory I'd be there in a heartbeat. At the minute I'm looking after two babies, struggling with a mortgage and battling to get a job in an area where there are 19 applicants per vacancy.

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you can learn a lot from Robin Kelly's comedy writing web site

Quote: bushbaby @ March 16 2011, 12:39 PM GMT

I think Mark is so right in what he says.

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It's Marc! Well some of the time anyway.

I take your point wordgirl, but that is a given for the script to start with in terms of polishing it so there are no reasons to reject it on silly things alone. But you are wrong in that people are not looking for reasons to reject it - they are with that amount of submissions. Did you ever develop anything to screen from a script you picked from a slush pile, and what were you producing by the way?

Quote: Marc P @ March 16 2011, 12:49 PM GMT

It's Marc! Well some of the time anyway.

I take your point wordgirl, but that is a given for the script to start with in terms of polishing it so there are no reasons to reject it on silly things alone. But you are wrong in that people are not looking for reasons to reject it - they are with that amount of submissions. Did you ever develop anything to screen from a script you picked from a slush pile, and what were you producing by the way?

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Oh, sorry Marc, of course I know it's Marc, slip of the 'pen'

Quote: bushbaby @ March 16 2011, 12:39 PM GMT

I think Mark is so right in what he says.
I had my entry acted out before submitting; at a writers' circle, about 30 members were there. They laughed till they cried and thought it brilliant. But, what is on the page can come across as banal but acted out hilarious and vice versa. Mine maybe boring on the page or it may not be to some. And who knows? Mine could have been number 33 on the list

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Hi Bushbaby. Talent and determination win through in the end. I really believe that... I have to! It sounds like you're well on your way though...hang in there.

Quote: the word girl @ March 16 2011, 12:54 PM GMT

Hi Bushbaby. Talent and determination win through in the end. I really believe that... I have to! It sounds like you're well on your way though...hang in there.

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That's nice of you but I do believe my humour is too wacky and as I've said, perhaps not funny to read

Quote: Marc P @ March 16 2011, 12:49 PM GMT

It's Marc! Well some of the time anyway.

I take your point wordgirl, but that is a given for the script to start with in terms of polishing it so there are no reasons to reject it on silly things alone. But you are wrong in that people are not looking for reasons to reject it - they are with that amount of submissions. Did you ever develop anything to screen from a script you picked from a slush pile, and what were you producing by the way?

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Hi Marc...I didn't actually say people aren't looking for reasons to reject scripts... maybe some are? (Personally, I always hoped to be dazzled, but maybe that's just my sunny disposition.) I do think there are ways, as a writer, that you can minimise the chances of that rejection happening though, other than the standard polishing. You can have a great script, for example, but perhaps it's not right for a particular competition. I certainly know a lot of things I did wrong with this competition approach/ script that I'll learn from, and improve on next time. I worked in factual/ documentaries for BBC and ITV, so never had to deal with a slush pile as such. But I did get my fiction novel picked up through a slush pile approach, so it does happen. Not often, but it does.

Well done on the novel wordgirl. I just know, as no doubt you, that a script has to go through many many hoops and over many many hurdles before it ever reaches the screen. And by an order of magnitude for an unsolicited script. And at every stage the writer/producer/editor is putting forward the best that they can with it. So at the end of all that and it gets turned down at say 'offers' stage, I don't think the writer can say it is all his fault. And I think the writer can apply that all the way back to the initial submission stage. Declan and Simon themselves say the scripts will be worked on with editors etc before showcasing. Is that to meet the writers vision better, or the schemes vision better or the directors in some cases? Either way there is a process that a script goes through after submission. As you say all the writer can do is make it as polished as he can before submitting, and by polished I do mean every aspect, not just the superficial. I am sure a lot of people didn't do that, thinking it will get fixed in the mix. but I am sure a lot of them did. Well some anyway! Griff....? Maybe.

I know I didn't do anywhere near enough polishing and I really wasn't happy with the end result but with an hour to go I didn't have much time to do anything about it.
Gutted? Yes but there we go, it's not a method I'd recommend to anyone but it was better to have a go than not.

Quote: bighead65 @ March 15 2011, 3:58 PM GMT

I agree, I really thought this was the funniest thing I have ever written, now I'm doubting my own ability, and don't know what direction to take cos not knowing what it failed on is stopping me putting it right.Do you put it to bed and start again, or did it just miss the cut. Help?

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To all you out of towners:

We're thinking of offering a variation of the workshop experience for those who can't get to London. We'll hire some actors and use a high quality recorder to record your script. You'll then get feedback from us and the actors. We'll send you an mp3 recording of the reading that you can then transfer to your smartphone/mp3 player. Reading your script to yourself is one thing, seeing how others interpret it is quite another.

If you're interested just pm either me or Declan.

To all you out of towners (2)

For those of you in larger towns who can't afford the train fare to London:

If you can get a group of 16 people together and supply a venue (a large, quiet front room is perfectly acceptable) then we'll come to you.

Once again, just pm us.

Quote: simon wright @ March 16 2011, 1:33 PM GMT

To all you out of towners:

We're thinking of offering a variation of the workshop experience for those who can't get to London. We'll hire some actors and use a high quality recorder to record your script. You'll then get feedback from us and the actors. We'll send you an mp3 recording of the reading that you can then transfer to your smartphone/mp3 player. Reading your script to yourself is one thing, seeing how others interpret it is quite another.

If you're interested just pm either me or Declan.

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I might take you up on that.
Are you going to have better equipment this time Simon, lol. Actually it wasn't the equipment it was the place as I recall. I did adapt the recording of the read through and radioised it which worked well. Is it worth thinking about adapting the stage piece to radio before sending so it works as a piece of itself. There wouldn't be an audience though I guess? Or would there?

###For those of you in larger towns who can't afford the train fare to London:###

I went to London last Friday, returned Monday, it was £16 each way. [from Manchester] That's when you book on line at least three weeks in advance. [Virgin]
The only regulation is...you have to get the train you've selected on booking, otherwise it'll cost at least £80 each way