Quote: Tim Walker @ September 13 2009, 10:00 PM BST

It is and was genetic modification, often with unforeseen consequences.

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Nope, man's past breeding programmes were about the selection of existing genetic material, already present within the species - cows were bred with cows, not pigs or sheep. But the more recent useage of the term GM refers to the insertion of completely alien genetic material. Not just trans-species but trans-phyla and kingdom.

Unless you're referring to Welsh hill farmers? But let's not talk about them eh?

Quote: Tim Walker @ September 13 2009, 10:00 PM BST

And viruses have been naturally altering other organisms' DNA for millions of years.

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Yes, and at what cost to the host? A virus isn't usually benign. The introduction of alien DNA in the natural world (viruses) usually results in disaster for the host population.

What new species has man created?

SlagA, though I respect your moral stance, it does make me wonder how tenuous it is.

When we're all in Mad Max land and people are killing each other for food (as witnessed in the great 70s Yul Brynner classic The Warrior), then ethical debates will fly out the window.

We'll be practically begging geneticists to create 8 legged chickens with potatoes for eyes or whatever. Once we ensure our survial as a species, then we'll worry about the ecological impacts of our cockatrices.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ September 13 2009, 10:34 PM BST

When we're all in Mad Max land killing each other for food, we'll be begging geneticists to create 8 legged chickens with potatoes for eyes or whatever.

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In this instance, the chicken will come before the Mad Max scenario. Imo.

Quote: SlagA @ September 13 2009, 10:37 PM BST

In this instance, the chicken will come before the Mad Max scenario. Imo.

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So no metal boomerang?

I meant that the chicken will create the Mad Max scenario rather than Mad Max demanding his new super chicken, so you'll get your boomerang, Sir. Just not in the order you expected it.

Quote: SlagA @ September 13 2009, 10:24 PM BST

What new species has man created?

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Created is the wrong word. But man has certainly deliberately and non-deliberately put selective pressures on the animal and plant kingdom which have led to biologiclally-distinct species. Most notably with domesticated cats and dogs, which can't breed with their wild cousins (so by definition a different species). It's nowhere as scary as crossing a dog with a polar bear etc. You couldn't do this anyway. It's all a bit scaremongering to think that what is produced in the lab under controlled conditions (taking into account ethical and moral considerations) is more of a concern than what nature makes itself. Nature produces all sorts of genetic mutations and other genetic selective pressures which are unregulated and have historically proved far more dangerous than anything man-made.

I see what you're saying SlagA, if you create the 8 legged chicken with potato eyes, it will drive down the cost of KFC Bargain Buckets to a ridiculously low price, thus destroying the economy, the banking system and society as we know it.

Then again, an 8 peice bargain bucket with eye chips for £3 sounds mighty tempting. F**k the planet, I'm having dinner with the Colonel.

We'll all be better off when the day comes that we dump our trash into a pond and genetically modified algae eat it and shit diesel and piss 12-year-old Scotch.

Quote: SlagA @ September 13 2009, 10:43 PM BST

I meant that the chicken will create the Mad Max scenario rather than Mad Max demanding his new super chicken, so you'll get your boomerang, Sir. Just not in the order you expected it.

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"Mad Max is not necessarily going to happen, Jeremy." - Peep Show

Quote: DaButt @ September 13 2009, 10:51 PM BST

We'll all be better off when the day comes that we dump our trash into a pond and genetically modified algae eat it and shit diesel and piss 12-year-old Scotch.

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Quote: Tim Walker @ September 13 2009, 10:45 PM BST

Nature produces all sorts of genetic mutations and other genetic selective pressures which are unregulated and have historically proved far more dangerous than anything man-made.

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Of course back then nature had the technology and man did not.

Most notably with domesticated cats and dogs, which can't breed with their wild cousins (so by definition a different species).

Aren't domestic cat/wild cat and dog/wolf hybrids viable? I thought such interbreeding was a recognised threat to the wild populations.

I'm against GM foods and do not want to eat them. They are a tool of multi-national organisations who want to own the design of the foods so they can make money out of farmers who have to return to them to buy seeds year after year as the plants don't create their own seeds for the farmers to grow.

Also, is it really safe? What if in 40 years it turns out that it gives you cancer? Someone once thought it was safe to feed cows dead matter, and suddenly you have BSE.

Quote: Bad dog @ September 13 2009, 11:00 PM BST

Someone once thought it was safe to feed cows dead matter, and suddenly you have the BCG.

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Yes, my humour is very obvious.

Quote: Bad dog @ September 13 2009, 11:00 PM BST

Also, is it really safe? What if in 40 years it turns out that it gives you cancer?

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Again with the cancer? Everything gives you cancer. The sun gives us cancer, let's ban that! People are now starting to claim that smoking gives you cancer! Cancer, cancer, cancer! Sticking a mobile phone up your arse gives you cancer! Breast-feeding gives you cancer! NOT breast-feeding gives you cancer! Five a day! Six a day! Why not f**king 34 a day?! Fellating an Anglican gives your cancer! Talking to tomato plants gives you cancer! Being born under the star sign cancer doesn't give you cancer!! Looking at Jordan's tits gives you cancer! Enough with the cancer!!

(Nothing personal, Bad dog, just fed-up of hearing about the cancer! )

Quote: Tim Walker @ September 13 2009, 11:35 PM BST

Again with the cancer? Everything gives you cancer. The sun gives us cancer, let's ban that! People are now starting to claim that smoking gives you cancer! Cancer, cancer, cancer!

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It's rare that we get to see statements like this from an actual medical professional. And a funny one, to boot. Hats off to Dr. Tim.

Great thread Aaron.

I think we should equate GM foods with Chimera from Greek Mythology.

My concern, like other posters, is that we may not enjoy the privilege of Pegasus bringing Bellephoron to destroy the monster.