Hi Lee I posted a reply earlier but it doesn't seem to have appeared. The gist of it was I would cut and paste it so I could read it easier, well done for posting etc. One thing I did notice from the first bits I read was you could give it a bit of a bikini wax itself to trim up the dialogue and gags.

For example : I liked the cigarettes in the toes because there was a grim kind of logic too it but I thought the chocolate fountain twist was a tad too far as I didn't believe it.

And re dialogue for an example:
MOIRA:
You had your treat yesterday! Full bikini wax I give you.

SUZIE:
Treat? Moira, I have never experienced such a wide spectrum of agonies in my entire life. (SHIFTS BOTTOM ON STOOL GINGERLY) I'm going to need counselling.

Could be tightened to:

MOIRA:
You had your treat yesterday! Full bikini wax.

SUZIE:
I know. (SHIFTS BOTTOM ON STOOL GINGERLY) I'm going to need counselling.

It's funnier if the actor expresses the full sprectrum of pain etc rather than directly saying it. It's her movement and expression that is funny. {MAYBE??]

Anyhoo will have a proper read, when I get a mo.

Well done again for posting a good big chunk!

Marc

Hullo there sir

I read your earlier draft of this, and I really felt like I missed the Jamie character. I think you've put a lot of his lines and behaviour into the character of Suzie and it doesn't work quite as well. For example, if Suzie thinks she's above it all, why is she working with her sister in a grotty beauty salon? Also, why would this kind of socially-aspirational-type person be a fan of David Dickinson? I really liked the twist before of Jamie, having mocked Moira's lovematch scheme, then being swayed by the "try-sexual". Again, would Suzie really be interested in the kind of guy who would go for her sister?

Personally I wouldn't worry about a resemblance to Gimme x 3. I think the characters are different enough – Jamie seemed a lot more grotesque than the James(?) Dreyfuss character, and Moira also seemed far away enough from Linda, what with her being a mother and a widow etc. Plus, I think that now with the Suzie character there's a Pam and Mrs Levinson vibe (from The League of Gentlemen) . I suppose what I'm trying to say is that you're completely unoriginal. I jest of course – I mean, there will always be some element that's a bit like something that was in something else, but with different actors and your own personal spin on it, it's going to be very different. Example – I felt that Jamie and Moira were a lot more in cahoots than Linda and James Dreyfuss's character were (sorry, can't remember his name).

All that being said, I think the idea of a snooty sister could work well, but is there another way to bring her in? Could she have bought the internet café next door, with plans to turn it into a global empire of internet cafes a la EasyCafe or whatever the orange chain of internet cafes is called? The one thing that's holding her back is this disgusting salon that shares the space?

I do like your writing though, and the rapidity of the jokes. I see it as being a single-camera set up rather than with an audience though. It's quite a dark, grotesque humour and I just feel like that would be detracted from with a studio audience hooting away. I think the scenes are a bit long, but I feel like you'll probably be editing as you go along, right?

Quote: Schnubbs @ February 3 2009, 5:27 PM GMT

Hullo there sir

I read your earlier draft of this, and I really felt like I missed the Jamie character. I think you've put a lot of his lines and behaviour into the character of Suzie and it doesn't work quite as well. For example, if Suzie thinks she's above it all, why is she working with her sister in a grotty beauty salon? Also, why would this kind of socially-aspirational-type person be a fan of David Dickinson? I really liked the twist before of Jamie, having mocked Moira's lovematch scheme, then being swayed by the "try-sexual". Again, would Suzie really be interested in the kind of guy who would go for her sister?

Personally I wouldn't worry about a resemblance to Gimme x 3. I think the characters are different enough – Jamie seemed a lot more grotesque than the James(?) Dreyfuss character, and Moira also seemed far away enough from Linda, what with her being a mother and a widow etc. Plus, I think that now with the Suzie character there's a Pam and Mrs Levinson vibe (from The League of Gentlemen) . I suppose what I'm trying to say is that you're completely unoriginal. I jest of course – I mean, there will always be some element that's a bit like something that was in something else, but with different actors and your own personal spin on it, it's going to be very different. Example – I felt that Jamie and Moira were a lot more in cahoots than Linda and James Dreyfuss's character were (sorry, can't remember his name).

All that being said, I think the idea of a snooty sister could work well, but is there another way to bring her in? Could she have bought the internet café next door, with plans to turn it into a global empire of internet cafes a la EasyCafe or whatever the orange chain of internet cafes is called? The one thing that's holding her back is this disgusting salon that shares the space?

I do like your writing though, and the rapidity of the jokes. I see it as being a single-camera set up rather than with an audience though. It's quite a dark, grotesque humour and I just feel like that would be detracted from with a studio audience hooting away. I think the scenes are a bit long, but I feel like you'll probably be editing as you go along, right?

View original

Thanks for that, very helpful. The Gimme Gimme Gimme similarity was mentioned by two people - a prod co and a BBC producer and that's why I changed it. My wife also misses Jamie but the other problem is - and this is a big problem - that the big "Comedy Gay" has been done so many times before. There's a reason for that - comedy gays are funny - but I'm trying to break down walls between me and commissioners, not put them up.

Would Suzie fancy Dickinson? I wondered that myself. However she dresses herself up she's still a maneater and cut from the same cloth as her sister, so maybe. But it's perhaps telling that we both thought the same thing.

Strange you see it as a single came. I totally see it as a studio thing...the jokes are very "sitcommy". I wonder, though...

Suzie is working with her sister because she bought into the business with her divorce money.

Thanks again - lots to think about.

Oh and yeah - this is still an early draft - it needs some ruthless pruning as Marc P pointed out earlier.

Ah well, I guess it's so long Jamie then. I think he stuck in my head so vividly as just before reading Sun and Surf, I'd seen him in Tesco! He was an enormous guy – about 6 ft 4, but really tubby as well. He was dressed in nu-rave gear (skinny jeans(so to speak), bright, patterned hoody) but also with one of those Palestinian-type scarves, because he obviously really cares about that whole Grazia Strip situation. He just trailed around after his Mum, who was pushing the heavily-laden trolley around, yabbering into his mobile the whole time in a loud, camp coice. I can't remember exactly what he was saying, but it was all very "Well then he said this, and I was, like, no and he was like, whatever. And I'm like, oh my god, I, like, totally couldn't care less etc"

But I digress…

I think with Suzie then, you have to be more consistent. You've got to take away a lot of the Jamie lines that you re-assigned to her. If she's the classy one, make her really classy. She's not going to be a fan of David Dickinson. If she's new agey and posh, have her trying to make the salon into the kind of spa that makes you feel dirty and ashamed - all white fluffy towels and organic-ey goodness. But Moira is the one who's into David Dickinson tanning products and dodgy cosmetic procedures. I wonder if there could be more humour in her not being so secure of her financial situation – perhaps she's waiting for the divorce settlement to come through and she's banking on a large sum. In the mean time, she's "helping out" at her sister's salon. Then you have an interesting slant on Moira and Suzie's respective status – Suzie working for her slovenly, boorish sister.

I also think that if she's a haughty, snooty snoot, you can't have her rolling around indulging in fisticuffs in the second scene. I think there could be more humour in her restraining herself – okay, she really wants that guys number. But she's not going to lower herself to wrestling with her sister for it. I think she has to believe she's more clever than that. Of course in the end, whatever her plot is, it has to fail and then the punches start flying maybe. Sorry, I'm suggesting things, but I can't think of plots to back them up. If you were going to resurrect the internet café storyline (I notice on reading again, you've dropped it. Should have read more closely – bad Schnubbs!) but maybe Dallas is a embryonic- hacker extraordinaire and Suzie tricks him into teaching her how to mess with Moira's lovematch account. Perhaps because he's not keen on his mum finding new love.

Anyway, rambling and not very helpfully.

It was ok, but to be honest fags between toes is needlessly silly

Quote: JBN1 @ February 8 2009, 8:41 PM GMT

It was ok, but to be honest fags between toes is needlessly silly

View original

...whereas an albino thespian trying to get brown by a nuclear - powered tanning booth in order to get a part on a fictional programme called Whitley Baywatch is entirely believable you mean?

haha good point Lesley

Hi Lee,

I've been struggling with this a bit. Gimme, Gimme, Gimme was something I didn't really enjoy, and I agree this has some siliarities which initially put me off but the jokes seem to have a bit more to them in Skin Deep.

I loved the begining and the choccy fags joke ought to be enough in itself to get this commissioned IMO. Like some others I struggled to differentiate the voices. Two maneaters with one having a thin veneer of sophistication didn't give sufficient gap for me. The gay guy certainly worked better but I can see why you needed to drop him.

I enjoyed the slightly surreal stuff but feel it could become a stronger theme in the work, although that could be because I prefer this type of humour.

In terms of pace I can see why you're getting mixed responses as there are a lot of gags but somehow the plot appears to move rather slowly. Some of the gags seem shoehorned in (mag headlines) although I accept they may have a clearer plot relevance later on. I think I'm looking for a big plot shift and haven't seen it. I may just be impatient but I think that's what makes it feel slow to me.

Sorry this is a bit rambling, and I'm aware you are much better at this than me, but those are my initial thoughts.

oeuvre - meaning? I thought this meant egg!

Quote: Ponderer @ February 8 2009, 10:19 PM GMT

Hi Lee,

I've been struggling with this a bit. Gimme, Gimme, Gimme was something I didn't really enjoy, and I agree this has some siliarities which initially put me off but the jokes seem to have a bit more to them in Skin Deep.

I loved the begining and the choccy fags joke ought to be enough in itself to get this commissioned IMO. Like some others I struggled to differentiate the voices. Two maneaters with one having a thin veneer of sophistication didn't give sufficient gap for me. The gay guy certainly worked better but I can see why you needed to drop him.

I enjoyed the slightly surreal stuff but feel it could become a stronger theme in the work, although that could be because I prefer this type of humour.

In terms of pace I can see why you're getting mixed responses as there are a lot of gags but somehow the plot appears to move rather slowly. Some of the gags seem shoehorned in (mag headlines) although I accept they may have a clearer plot relevance later on. I think I'm looking for a big plot shift and haven't seen it. I may just be impatient but I think that's what makes it feel slow to me.

Sorry this is a bit rambling, and I'm aware you are much better at this than me, but those are my initial thoughts.

View original

Thanks Ponderer - and thanks to all for your input. I'd love to post the rest up so you can see the relevance of the set-up gags - like the magazine and the choccy fountain etc - they all come into play later in the story. Unfortunately a prod co just got back to me saying they're interested in developing the script so I'd best not put any more up.

Quote: Lee Henman @ February 9 2009, 2:27 PM GMT

Unfortunately a prod co just got back to me saying they're interested in developing the script so I'd best not put any more up.

View original

Yes Lee, that is unfortunate. I wish I had some of that myself. Well done.

Quote: steve by any other name @ February 9 2009, 4:19 PM GMT

Yes Lee, that is unfortunate. I wish I had some of that myself. Well done.

View original

yer know worramean

Quote: Lee Henman @ February 9 2009, 2:27 PM GMT

Unfortunately a prod co just got back to me saying they're interested in developing the script so I'd best not put any more up.

View original

You must be gutted. I bet you were looking forward to putting some more up. I'll just have to check it out when it's broadcast.

Quote: Lee Henman @ February 9 2009, 2:27 PM GMT

Unfortunately a prod co just got back to me saying they're interested in developing the script so I'd best not put any more up.

View original

Nice one Mr. Henman