Quote: chipolata @ June 23 2011, 10:09 AM BSTIf you don't know who he is, this might not be the best forum for you.
Yeah... and only train spotters should be allowed to ride on trains!
Armando Iannucci joins Baby Cow Productions Page 2
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ June 17 2012, 11:38 AM BSTFrom the headline tweets they showed, I think Campbell won the exchange hands down.
Then you would be wrong.
WMD won the day, as Campbell himself then conceded. Iannucci owned him, as you would expect.
Quote: zooo @ June 17 2012, 11:42 AM BSTI think maybe you didn't read it properly?
Okay, I'll change my wording to 'AC won the moral argument hands down' if not the twittery exchange which ended with smarmy Armi delivering a trademark sharp witty riposte, even though it smacks of wanting to have it both ways and being totally blind to the moral dubiousness of it.
Because WMD is what exactly, to AI? Is it the heartfelt issue he had to make such satiric capital out of for his own conscience, or is it really no more than a great issue to put your creative stamp on, on your way to an OBE and better career prospects because of it?
For posterity.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ June 17 2012, 1:13 PM BSTThen you would be wrong.
WMD won the day,
Only if you live in a shallow world where words are mere constructs of catty put downs and clever twittery wittery.
I don't live in that world, and words to me are part of a human languge that carries depth and meaning. Campbell won the argument! However much you try and focus on the style of Iannucci's delivery, which is mere window dressing to the moral substance of the argument. Through shere moral logic, Campbell could not fail to win that one.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ June 17 2012, 1:51 PM BSTOnly if you live in a shallow world where words are mere constructs of catty put downs and clever twittery wittery.
I don't live in that world, and words to me are part of a human languge that carries depth and meaning. Campbell won the argument! However much you try and focus on the style of Iannucci's delivery, which is mere window dressing to the moral substance of the argument. Through shere moral logic, Campbell could not fail to win that one.
What is the 'moral substance' of the argument?
'Worship words for what they tell you, not merely how they say it.' AI being clever and cool and witty is secondary to AC pointing out the moral ambiguity of AI's actions.
The way I saw it, Armando then pointed out the moral issues in AC's actions.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ June 17 2012, 1:51 PM BSTOnly if you live in a shallow world where words are mere constructs of catty put downs and clever twittery wittery.
I don't live in that world, and words to me are part of a human languge that carries depth and meaning. Campbell won the argument! However much you try and focus on the style of Iannucci's delivery, which is mere window dressing to the moral substance of the argument. Through shere moral logic, Campbell could not fail to win that one.
Quote: rwayne @ June 17 2012, 2:11 PM BSTWhat is the 'moral substance' of the argument?
It was a genuine question... I was interested in what the answer may be.
While I'm at it, what is 'the establishment', really?
Quote: rwayne @ June 17 2012, 2:11 PM BSTWhat is the 'moral substance' of the argument?
- If you ceaselessly mock an insitution for being wrong or corrupt or immoral, then don't become a part of that institution, don't be insinuated into it by means of Greek gifts. Roughly. If you really believe in what you say then prove it by staying outside that insutition.
Is it ceaselessly mocking an institution though? or the people within it and their actions.
Is he, or anyone else, against the 'institution' as a priciple or the actions and behaviour of individuals?
Quote: zooo @ June 17 2012, 2:23 PM BSTThe way I saw it, Armando then pointed out the moral issues in AC's actions.
He did, but really it's a different issue with different values. AC was amoral/imoral by serving a war mongering PM but he hasn't been imoral in accepting a gong from a body he's spent his career mocking. That's what he's accusing AI of. AI did not answer this accusation directly, because he can't, he knows AC is right. But he deflects this by bringing up a separate moral issue of AC's, suggesing it's a bit rich for him to lecturing on morals.
Armando mocks the people and their incompetence, Alfred, not the actual existence of the institutions. I read an interview with him fairly recently where he explained that he does not, as many people (including yourself) assume, hate politics and all politicians, but despairs at the hypocrisy, the objectively poor judgement and general f**kwittedness that goes on. He wishes our establishments to be run better, not removed or reformed wholesale.