Quote: SlagA @ May 21 2009, 9:57 AM BSTIn the same way Michael Jackson kiddy-diddler opinion seems split almost entirely on whether you like him or hate him.
Exactly.
Hey, Pete Townshend must have a lot of fans!
Opinions Please! Page 6
Quote: thefridaylink @ May 21 2009, 9:43 AM BSTMidnight's Children
I've read that book, it's great. Some really cool car chases and Kung Fu fights. Wasn't it made into a Stephen Seagal movie?
I jest. I read three chapters and almost broke my jaw yawning. 
Quote: Chappers @ May 21 2009, 1:07 AM BSTHad you ever really heard of him before the Satanic Verses?
Yes. I'd read his three previous novels. I actually was served The Satanic Verses from under-the-counter at W.H. Smith! His novels up to the one after 'Verses' (The Moor's Last Sigh) are all wonderful.
Quote: chipolata @ May 21 2009, 9:51 AM BSTChrist, that book's hard work. You should get a prize just for finishing it.
Rushdie has published the screenplay (for an unfilmed TV adaptation) of Midnight's Children. Another excellent read!
Quote: JohnnyD @ May 20 2009, 4:47 PM BSTNo, but your response to "People get even touchier when you start messing with religion. May even have to go and hide with Salman Rushdie" was "the salman rushdie comment was uncalled for"
Why was it uncalled for? The thread is about a proposal for a deliberately 'controversial' show. According to Missus Afinkawan and a recent BBC 4 documentary, 'The Satanic Verses' courted controversy. The point made is that religion can provoke very strong and violent reactions.
I remember at the time the nauseating spectacle of Cat Stevens on Newsnight demanding the murder of Sir Salman. I was so sickened I was heard to say: 'I hope he's brought his guitar'.
I think we know this is a bad idea if it's causing a stir on a forum. As for what Salman Rushdie did yes it was offensive and that's why I thought it was uncalled for. You're right, religion can provoke very strong and violent reactions. The point is, unless you're a Muslim you can't understand how bad a thing he did, you're just commenting from the perspective on someone looking in. Hey_nonny apologised, I said there was no need and that's the end of it. Let's just all move on.
As long as no one insults The Tooth Fairy, I'm fine.
Another masterpiece of 'Magic Realism' (gotta put things in genres) is The Master and Margarita - which Sir Salman has acknowledged as a great influence on 'Verses'. However, be warned, many Stalinists have been offended by it.
Quote: Zuhaib @ May 21 2009, 12:20 PM BSTThe point is, unless you're a Muslim you can't understand how bad a thing he did, you're just commenting from the perspective on someone looking in.
This is a cop out. No matter how "bad a thing" it was just a book. And under no circumstances should it have resulted in death threats. That's ridiculous, and does not reflect particularly well on the brand of Islam that the extremist idiots calling for his death follow.
Quote: JohnnyD @ May 20 2009, 4:47 PM BSTI remember at the time the nauseating spectacle of Cat Stevens on Newsnight demanding the murder of Sir Salman. I was so sickened I was heard to say: 'I hope he's brought his guitar'.
Good job he didn't bring his gun.
I'm Gonna Get Me A Gun - Artist(Band): Cat Stevens (now Yusuf Islam)
And this was before he jumped on the organised religion bandwagon!
Lyrics > > > http://tinyurl.com/o6cnz5
Quote: chipolata @ May 21 2009, 12:34 PM BSTThis is a cop out. No matter how "bad a thing" it was just a book. And under no circumstances should it have resulted in death threats. That's ridiculous, and does not reflect particularly well on the brand of Islam that the extremist idiots calling for his death follow.
It's not a cop-out, it's an accurate statement. Nobody is saying that the death threats were a reasonable repsonse to a book. but the fact is, without knowing a lot about Islam you can't understand how insulting that book might have been.
If I called your mum a slag, you'd be offended and everyone else would be able to see why you were offended. If I picked a name and said that Maureen O'Flannagan-Smythe was a slag, people might see why that could be considered offensive to some but would not realise why Edith Hambleton-Jones was more offended than most without knowing that her maiden name was O'Flannagan-Smythe.
Same thing - outside looking in, as Zuhaib said.
And no, issuing a death threat to me for calling your mum a slag would not be reasonable 
I loved Midnight's Children ... but had just spent ages studying Indian history which helped.
"Unless you are $GROUP then you can't understand" is not a line of reasoning that I am happy with. Surely that is the whole point of communication - that you convey how something has effected you.
Had you said "know a lot about Islam" then sure I could see that ... but "You have to be a Muslim" is just reductive.
Also - not all Muslims are the same and not all reacted in the same way - which also makes that claim problematic.
No statement ... no matter how offensive should lead to death threats surely?
Quote: SlagA @ May 21 2009, 9:59 AM BST
And do you sing Blue Minx' Great Big Melting Pot when you're entertaining his missus?
If by the word 'Entertain', you mean - "Do I black myself up and f**k his wife, all the while pretending to be Cliff Huxtable from The Cosby Show", then you'd be correct.
I find it very strange how any religion can advocate murder because of a perceived sleight against it. Most religions are built on fear and threats, including Christianity. I'm just glad to live in a time and place where it's possible to opt out of the whole lot.
Quote: Afinkawan @ May 21 2009, 12:46 PM BSTIf I called your mum a slag, you'd be offended
No I wouldn't.
Quote: Lee Henman @ May 21 2009, 2:01 PM BSTI find it very strange how any religion can advocate murder because of a perceived sleight against it. Most religions are built on fear and threats, including Christianity. I'm just glad to live in a time and place where it's possible to opt out of the whole lot.
I agree wholeheartedly. If a somebody is calling for another person's death on the basis of a percieved insult then that's wrong as wrong can be. Surely those who believe Salman Rushdie has insulted Islam also believe that Allah will punish him after he's dead? I assume by making him read his own novels.
Quote: JohnnyD @ May 21 2009, 12:14 PM BSTYes. I'd read his three previous novels. I actually was served The Satanic Verses from under-the-counter at W.H. Smith! His novels up to the one after 'Verses' (The Moor's Last Sigh) are all wonderful.
Rushdie has published the screenplay (for an unfilmed TV adaptation) of Midnight's Children. Another excellent read!
Do they have lots of pictures though? I can't stand books that don't have at least 4 pictures per page.
Quote: Afinkawan @ May 21 2009, 12:46 PM BSTIt's not a cop-out, it's an accurate statement. Nobody is saying that the death threats were a reasonable repsonse to a book. but the fact is, without knowing a lot about Islam you can't understand how insulting that book might have been.
Same thing - outside looking in, as Zuhaib said.
And no, issuing a death threat to me for calling your mum a slag would not be reasonable
But as I keep saying it seems to be perfectly acceptable to laugh at Christians and their beliefs.
Quote: Afinkawan @ May 21 2009, 12:46 PM BSTIf I called your mum a slag, you'd be offended and everyone else would be able to see why you were offended.
So, who was Rushdie calling a slag, then? Is he slighting real people, or just a deity or character who may or may not exist?