Quote: Jason Kindred @ November 23, 2006, 9:39 AM

One of the problems with modern comedy, is that "mainstream" seems to have become a dirty word. There doesn't seem much of an appetite to develop shows - or timeslots - which feature quality yet accessible comedy. TV executives would much rather arse about trying to develop shows which, at best, are only ever going to appeal to a narrow strata of society.

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Good point. One of the problems is the production companies' obsession with demographics. I read an interview with Graham Linehan (when he was promoting The IT Crowd) in which he talked about meeting with a production company to pitch a show. As he was waiting in reception, he started to read their mission statement (posted on the wall for all to admire). It listed the likes and lifestyles of the people who they were making shows for. When GL went in to the meeting, he mentioned the mission statement and said, so basically you're appealing solely to women in their 20s who read Heat and all the other gossip mags and their reply was...yes.

Too many of today's shows are aimed at niche audiences (usually the 18-34 brigade). There is not enough variety, despite what other posters claim.

I would say that there are an awful lot of comedy shows that don't aim for niche audiences (although 18-34 is a pretty big niche!).

The BBC has tried desperately to find something to appeal to older audiences with My Family, Home Again, My Hero, that one starring Jamie Theakston, Summer Wine, Sensitive Skin, Crouches, The Thick of It, Lead Balloon etc. These shows have been variable in quality but I certainly don't think that they exclude the over 34s in any way.

Has there ever been a time, certainly in the last couple of decades, when comedy wasn't aimed at relatively young people though? On Channel 4 and BBC 2 it always has been as far as I can recall.

Also I'm not sure how anybody can dispute the variety of comedy. There are now more panel games, more comedy chat shows, more hidden camera shows/fly on the wall shows, more reality comedy shows etc. The style of sitcoms is also more diverse nowadays. There are still traditional ones if you want that but there are others that are much more alternative. There are also many comedy shows which don't fit into pigeon-holes.

Quote: Wheeler @ November 23, 2006, 10:57 AM

Too many of today's shows are aimed at niche audiences (usually the 18-34 brigade). There is not enough variety, despite what other posters claim.

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so what would you like to see?

This argument is going nowhere. Go back and read my posts (and those of SlagA) to get an idea of what I would like to see.

I'm giving you my feedback (as someone who writes sitcoms and has had dealings with several production companies) and that of Graham Linehan (who, I think it's fair to say, knows what he is talking about - when someone of his stature says there is a problem, maybe we should sit up and take notice.)

Ultimately, you think that British TV comedy is in good shape, whilst I think that there is much room for improvement (although I have enjoyed some of the shows you've mentioned). End of.

ive read your other posts and i dont see where you say what you'd like to see in terms of comedies that would raise the standards of british comedy, don't get me wrong i see your point that there are problems with comedies these days and within the industry itself, friday night channel 4 is a prime example of how shit/insulting comedy can be nowdays but there is some good stuff out there too

i agree with you both, there is a lot of shit out there but there is also some good comedy out there, as soon as channal 4 ditches, episode after episode of Friends, will & grace, the simpsons etc and put some britcom on in a primetime role again, we have to rely on the bbc, who seem content to rival itv in every feild of t.v there even doing friggin reality t.v now, what ever happened to, monday night comedy on bbc 2 then friday night comedy on bbc1, with odd shows during the week, i miss them days, but comedy isn't dead, we still have some good shows

Got to agree with Wheeler.

Comedy is subjective and what makes me laugh, doesn't make other people laugh. We were asked an opinion and if mine is in disagreement with the rest of the world, then i'm quite happy to live with my opinion and let others live with theirs, and accept both as mere opinion, liable to change with time.

Laughing at one show makes neither one person cooler and another person less so. It doesn't give leverage into an inclusive Fast Show style club. It also doesn't make people older or younger, in body or mind.

There have been some good shows (Spaced / Ph Nights / Big Train / League of Gentlemen) true. But over-diversification combined with more and more specific niche markets, lower budgets, big name lame writers, competition with Sky's parasitic regurgitation of classics from the past, are trends that should make us think twice about the future of comedy. Sure, there will always be great / good / average writers but they need a vehicle for their comedy, or end up posting on youtube clones.

Quote: SlagA @ November 23, 2006, 9:25 AM

"The current state of comedy depends what angle you're coming from. If it was from my parents, they would say it was bad..."

Hey Jay, don't make assumptions about age based on preference of comedy. You ageist, you! I am not a teen but i'm not a parent either.

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Sorry SlagA - my comments didn't over the way I meant.

I used my parents as an example as to what they watch and not really cause of their age. Its all a matter of taste. My friends are all of different ages, so the age argument doesn't come into it.

By the way, I'm in my 30's. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

I'm very much a believer that most of the shit we get pumped into our homes these days is shit because it's just too niche. Whilst certain shows may be good now, I don't think that they'll be remembered fondly over the next few decades, mainly because their humour isn't broad enough, and doesn't appeal across a wide enough spectrum.

There may be some exceptions - and I'm sure that some of us will still be loving them 40 years down the line - but they're too much "of their time", and IMO the thought that some of these programmes will pick up watchers over the next few decades in the way that shows like Dad's Army, Steptoe and Son, Black Adder and Fawlty Towers still do now is, quite honestly, preposterous.

And in regards to Mike, the 'classic' shows that you've noted as being "mildly funny" in comparison to more modern ones seem to be those which are particularly British. The modern shows you have cited as funnier successes are of a more broader style of humour (internationally, I mean), so whilst I don't agree with what you're saying, I can see where you're coming from.

You've only given 4 examples there of shows that have stood the test of time from about 4 decades worht of TV though Aaron. I concede that there certainly are more than this but it certainly isn't preposterous that things like The Office, Phoenix Nights, Royle Family, Alan Partridge etc. will stand the test of time. The same goes for a cult show like Spaced. People will be watching Shaun Of The Dead for a long time to come and will want to see the sitcom that the makers worked on.

There are also examples of many shows that are 'of their time' that have also stood the test of time. WHTT Likely Lads is an obvious example as is The Young Ones.

Well, The Young Ones is arguable, but that's been covered in another thread, so let's not go there.

Back on the issue though, I certainly see your point, and I agree - on principle, at least - with what you're saying, but I do think that a lot of it is just too niche to carry on quite in the same way that others, such as the handful I listed, have done.

Like I said though, there are exceptions; not everything around at the moment - niche or more broad - will be considered shite, just in the same way not everything will be considered as a classic. Alan Partridge, as you point out, is something that will almost certainly be thought of fondly (although to what extent remains to be seen), but then it's perhaps the most "broad" of some of the "niche" things that we've seen. If that makes sense.

Anyway, basically what I was trying to say is that, IMHO at least, there's much less stuff with that broad appeal around now than there was, say, 30 years ago. In the long run these modern shows will suffer as tastes change; I'm sure that those older, broader shows will probably die at some point too, but it'll be a lot longer before there's nothing left in them to appeal to the audience of the day.