Quote: keewik @ 11th March 2016, 2:45 PM GMT

...I see the same bloody nonsense of scare tactics which we had to put up with from the 'No' side, during the Scottish referendum. There were times when they lied their faces off...

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In which case you may be interested in the following story. Points out how the SNP stay in campaign appear to have over estimated oil revenue by over 1500%. Or in other words, they getting around 6% of the income they predicted. That's not uncertainty, as people were telling them they were wrong at the time, that's an enormous "mistake" (i.e. lie),a walloping, wopping whale of a "mistake"(i.e. lie). SNP should be paid 6% of their salary this year, no bonus.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/03/10/bbcqt-snp-davidson-oil-swinney-_n_9434138.html

You could say they all lie, but beware charismatic characters that sell on intuition and feelings, like Boris, Galloway, Salmond and Trump. There is a complete disconnect with the facts (e.g. being 1500% out with your figures), as apposed to the exaggerations and misrepresentations of all the rest. I read someone has analysed Tumps speeches and found 76% contained contradictions or untruths. 76%. And they say he says it like it is. Boris could probably beat that.

Possibly the best idea is to toss a coin in the polling station before you make your mark.

I'm wondering if Cameron really wants us out of the EU but cannot be seen to be doing so. Consequently he's making ridiculous arguments against the "Out" vote.

Quote: lofthouse @ 7th March 2016, 9:25 PM GMT

This book will introduce you to these stakeholders of the cartel - dressed not in military uniforms, but in grey suits.

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They wore grey uniforms anyway.

You could be right. Then he can blame others if if doesn't work out.

One month into the campaign and I've received 2 different In campaign folios, one of them about 3 times. Slightly worryingly I haven't had a single Out campaign one put through the door. Has anyone else here had one yet and is it well presented/printed etc. as this does sway some. How late are they going to leave it?

Or are they waiting as long as poss so they can put in as many of these terrorist atrocities as they can? These latest in Brussels itself are a godsend for them, I just hope they've got the balls to use it and go for the big hits.

Are you desperate to shake it all about?

There was a long discussion about it in my household last night. Arguments for were as convincing as arguments against. I admit I fell asleep part way through but when I woke up they were talking about all the NHS workers who would be deported, the elderly who retired abroad will have to come back and that getting rid of young, fit and qualified workforce and bringing back dependent elderly doesn't seem like a good idea.
There was also a lot of talk about import and export as some of them work in the sugar industry and also about the sciences, research and sharing information etc.
I am still confused.

We had one leaflet from 'In' yesterday and, at a glance, I thought it was a Tory party leaflet for the upcoming Scottish Parliament elections. I can't speak for the rest of you, but I think it would be a waste of time in Scotland to send out masses of leaflets right now, because our first concern is the Scottish Parliament elections in May. There were protests from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland about the timing of the referendum being too close to these other elections, but, of course, David Cameron knew best! He could be shooting himself in the foot because people other than English residents could be too sated to bother with his referendum.

Not sure why we'd deport the NHS workers? (actually we're doing this to the NHS staff from the Philipines etc see later remark about mistrusting our crap government)

And as for the elderly retired overseas I suspect Spain still wants their pensions.

But I think we should stay, I like having a layer of government and law makers above our own ones. The idea that I'd be at the mercy of Corbyn or Cameron makes me shudder. It's a huge market we'd have to join anyway, they'd just take away all of our goodies to let us back in.

I do hope the EU gets its shit together on both security and imigration. Not to mention not being pushed around by Germany all the time.

Quote: sootyj @ 26th March 2016, 11:23 AM GMT

Not sure why we'd deport the NHS workers? (actually we're doing this to the NHS staff from the Philipines etc see later remark about mistrusting our crap government)

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I think the person who said it meant that there are lots of NHS workers who are not British citizens. She is not a British Citizen so I guess she was wondering what might happen to her.

I can only grasp these things at a very basic level but that's what I understood her to mean.

Probably there'd be a little fuss over switching to the same conditions that apply to Austalian/Philipines etc NHS staff. But the NHS employs 40% of its staff from overseas.

So unless the government brings in medical national service they're safe.

That said Theresa May has f**kwittedly said anyone earning under £30,000 will have to leave the UK after I think 10 years?

I'm voting to stay in. The idea of having this (or the next) government totally in charge of'everything' with no higher democratic body to answer to be is quite unsettling. There is an element of security in being in the EU, out of it is a very very big unknown. I've seen nothing to convince me that we would be better off out.

Freedom of movement is another worry, right now if our kids wish to go and study virtually free in another EU country (which has chosen to not financially cripple their young) there is nothing to stop them...out of the EU they have to pay full whack to go study in the Netherlands, Ireland etc. Heartbreaking to have my 16 year old worrying already about student debt and even more so if they won't have any options.

Thankfully my kids will be able to study in Ireland by virtue of their Irish Citizenship if they so wish...but what about all the others condemned to £50,000 debts at 21 just because they have no other choice??

Quote: Hercules Grytpype Thynne @ 21st February 2016, 9:43 AM GMT

BORING!

Will it make any difference to my life? Will it f**k and do I care? NO!

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Wow. That sort of attitude pisses me right off.

In a funny sort of way Herc's actually right.

It's important but.... we're not being offered any real choices.

Say Brexit said; "We can join the BRIC and NAFTA as junior partners it'll be tough but we'll be our own country again"

That would be a choice instead it's "leave now and bang on the door tomorrow for readmittance" or "stay now and getting nothing new"

It's a very typical political choice today, sounds big but really means nothing.

nb Ireland still has free education for it's kids?

Yep, no tuition fees in Ireland, there is a contribution of about 1,500 euros but even that is waived when means tested for some.

It does mean something though, that's the problem. Herc's 'I'm alright Jack, f**k everyone else' mindset is pretty sad.

Quote: Loopey @ 26th March 2016, 11:00 AM GMT

they were talking about all the NHS workers who would be deported, the elderly who retired abroad will have to come back and that getting rid of young, fit and qualified workforce and bringing back dependent elderly doesn't seem like a good idea.

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Quite obviously complete nonsense. Neither pensioners living over there nor foreign nationals working here would be compelled to move. It would be of advantage to neither side.

Besides, the largest foreign contingents of NHS staff are from far outside the EU's borders.

Quote: Shandonbelle @ 26th March 2016, 12:14 PM GMT

The idea of having this (or the next) government totally in charge of 'everything' with no higher democratic body to answer to be is quite unsettling.

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I could laugh hysterically at the notion of the EU being a "democratic body", but shall refrain.

I'm curious about this argument. What so much distrust in the people we elect? Why so much trust in the people we don't? Why such a transfer - they're still politicians?