Les Dennis - End Of The Pier interview
Les Dennis is currently starring in new play End Of The Pier. He talks to BCG about how comedy has changed since his days playing working men's clubs.
Hi Les, tell us a bit about your character in End Of The Pier?
I'm playing a guy called Bobby Chalk who was in a double act in the '80s, called 'Chalk & Cheese', with Eddie Cheese. They were an old school double act, flying high on TV, but did questionable material that would totally be unacceptable now, which eventually ruined their careers.
He's an interesting character, he's old school and absolutely says that he's not racist, but he was doing jokes that he should not have been doing at that time.
What attracted you to do doing this play?
There's lots of parallels for me - thankfully not the racist ones - but I too was in a double act and was part of that whole era of working men's clubs and the variety circuit, so when I read it I knew that I wanted to play this part because he's such a great character and is very well written by Danny.
What was it like playing the working men's clubs?
You basically went on between the bingo and had to get an audience very quickly. I suppose in many ways that's not unlike the comedy scene today, getting an audience in any comedy club on a Friday night can be tough.
It was a different era and they kind of demanded that you did a certain style of comedy. People say it was a great training ground, but it was only really a training ground if you wanted to really hit it hard.
Luckily when I started in the working men's clubs I was doing impressions of Frank Spencer and Tommy Cooper and I looked far too young to be doing mother-in-law or wife jokes, and I avoided anything that was racist anyway. It was a time when you saw comedy from a different side, there were some funny people but there were also some people that were questionable in the kind of material that they were doing.
So, why do you feel that era is sometimes tarred with a negative brush?
It's obviously not all seen negatively as I worked with some great acts that were on that scene. Somebody like Ken Goodwin, who was on The Comedians, he did the silliest, daftest jokes - they were old variety jokes that worked and he never went anywhere near any questionable material.
There is a certain point in the play which makes us all look at what is acceptable in comedy today and how we quite rightly have to edit ourselves and highlight what's not acceptable anymore. When I was 21, I was doing Irish jokes because I was a fan of Dave Allen and I thought, 'well, it's okay to do Irish jokes' - not realising that I wasn't Irish! You get educated as you get older and as you get more into this business you have to make sure that you are saying what is right.
Your character in the play, Bobby, was part of a double act and you were in one yourself with Dustin Gee. What do you think it was about that era that made the male double act so popular?
I suppose we were all looking for the gap left by the likes of Morecambe & Wise and audiences always do like that sparring of two comedians, it's something that was handed down from Laurel & Hardy. The male double act was always popular and then it was a huge change in the fashion when we suddenly had French & Saunders and we all went WOW, that's fantastic!
The play is very much about the changing attitude towards who and what we laugh at and what's acceptable to joke about. Why do you feel here and now is such a turning point in comedy?
In the second act of the show there's a line about how Twitter is great for putting jokes out and how they fly around the world in seconds. Now you've got to be so aware of what you're putting out there or within seconds you can make a huge mistake. We've only got to look at the example of what Roseanne [Roseanne Barr] said and how not only what it did to her, but also the cast of that whole show. I think we are in a world now where everyone is making jokes and you really have to think before you tweet before you put stuff out there.
Comedy is now so much more accessible and instant these days, would you agree?
Absolutely. It's definitely that. I am of the old guard, but I think that now there is a different attitude towards comedy. It's now that comedians can play arenas and demand that massive audience. In our day, you did 52 weeks a year and you could travel all around the clubs and theatres and you didn't have to change your act. Whereas now, as you say, it's so instant that the material is out there and now comedians go out and do a show and then they have to write another one straight away. It wasn't like that in our day.
End Of The Pier is set in the comedy nostalgia location of Blackpool. What would you say is the biggest thing that separates a Blackpool audience from a London audience?
I did summer seasons in Blackpool in its heyday, 1979-1984 and then a big one with Dustin Gee in '85. I then went back again in '95 with Roy Walker and Su Pollard and we noticed a massive change.
Blackpool was sadly not the summer holiday venue it had been, it was all changing. I still think you can get a smart audience in Blackpool now though if you are doing stuff that's new; I feel you'll appeal to an audience just as much there as you would anywhere else. We get an audience here that comes to see the play that are aware of both worlds - young Michael, who is the trendy young comic and Bobby, the old gagster - and they laugh at both sides.
What are you hoping people will take away from End Of The Pier?
Certainly what we are seeing is that audiences feel it's a very thought-provoking comedy that initially seems to be an argument about the semantics of comedy, but then an incident happens that takes the play into another area.
Comedy is very much the theme throughout the play, but there are other themes about what is acceptable for us to laugh at. We are seeing massive reactions and what I love about it is it's not that people are in the bar afterwards saying, "that was great, let's go and eat", it's opening a huge debate instead. I think that's hugely exciting and it's certainly what threw me into the play in the first place.
Comedy is forever evolving and this play really shows that. We've had the past, we've got the present, but what do you think is the future of comedy? What will we be laughing at next?
I remember Victoria Wood saying simply that if it's bad taste, then it isn't funny and if it's funny, then it isn't bad taste. I know that's quite a broad approach, but basically it means that it won't stand up and it will be knocked down if it's bad taste, and if it's funny it'll survive.
Comedy doesn't always have to be political; there is room for every style of humour. I think there's room in the future for the old gagsters, because people are still laughing at that, and there's room for the kind of people who go at it hard and are kind of edgy. So, I think that comedy will continue for as long as we're aware that there are things we can't do anymore. It's common sense and it's thinking about your fellow human beings.