I'd bail out from any job that asked me for money up front.

I wouldn't touch that job with a bargepole. Get out ASAP.

I hope that the certificate you got is independent of that company, because I doubt that you will get your money back from them. Did they run the course that led to the certificate or (hopefully) was it an independent and real organization.

Your idea of applying to more ethical companies is a good one.

Check the internet for tales of the current company.

Quote: billwill @ 5th March 2018, 3:56 PM

I wouldn't touch that job with a bargepole. Get out ASAP.

I hope that the certificate you got is independent of that company, because I doubt that you will get your money back from them. Did they run the course that led to the certificate or (hopefully) was it an independent and real organization.

Your idea of applying to more ethical companies is a good one.

Check the internet for tales of the current company.

View original

I agree with Bill. This sounds very dodgy indeed.

I watched an episode of the TV program "Hustle" this past week which had a confidence scam remarkably similar to that. It was about young girls applying to be models and they were being charged for training and photo brochures etc. Then there was no real work available at the end.

Unfortunately you don't have the benefit of the "Hustle" team to get your own back on them.

Having spent 20 years in Sales & Marketing Management (albeit not insurance) I would not expect an employee or self-employed person to have to sell product (policies are product) without being recompensed. Commission only sales guys (a job I did for 4 years) get paid the commission when they make a sale - not usually until the money comes in from the client, granted - but they get paid their cut!

Sell for free?
Why would that be a necessary?
Especially when they told you differently - do you have that in your job offer letter?

The action I would take would be, tell this company nothing, string them along a bit, and at the same time apply to other companies with the certification and see what happens. I would check out if the certification is valid from the people who issued it? Or other Insurance companies, I would call their HR departments and ask them, can I apply to you with this certification? Then once I have found out the answer to that I would take any documentation I had and the information I had gathered from other companies, and then get legal advice to see if I has any kind of case for compensation.

If I didn't have a case then I would just walk away and chalk it up to a learning experience, if I did have a case then I would do what business people do (I am one so I know) stay stone cold neutral, it's just business, hit them, and hit them hard for whatever I could get. Take no prisoners, give no quarter...

That is what they are doing to you!

So lose no sleep, stay cool, tomorrows another day, take the right action and you will win through!

The license is valid state-wide. I completed the mandatory state licensing course to sell property/casualty, life/health insurance with any insurer in the state. So that's all well and good.

They're not planning to pay me *no* money, they're just planning to put off paying me an hourly wage in addition to commission until I make 44 sales. So for (I'm guessing) about 4-6 months, I'll be paid a grand total of about 2 grand, which I frankly just can't pay the bills with.

I have a training session today, and I'm going to go, and just see what information I can pick up. I'll ask loads of innocent questions, get some sort of answers, and either arrange to meet with the first agent I met with, who promised me the opposite of what's happeniing now, or with the recruiter who is now finally telling me bits about what the plan is, 6 weeks after roping me into this all. I trust neither of them, but I want to get the story straight.

I had a potential offer from another insurance company about a month ago, but ignored it. I think I'll start by seeing if I can get in contact with them.

There are also two tracks for this company. There's an entrepreneurship training program, which is what they've sort of steered me toward, and then there's a straight sales job that I know nothing about, but I would like to know about before I turn down that option. If that option would allow me to get straight to work with an hourly wage then I have no problem just taking that. Unless you all think that's a bad idea. I'm still fairly inclined to tell this company to eff off.

44 insurance policies? You're talking about thousands of pounds here.

I was told commission for each policy is 30-60$. Thousands, yes, about 2.5 thousand.

For them to expect you to work for 4 - 6 months on $400 per month indicates they are expecting you to do this part time as well as a full time job. It's part time money, clearly. On that basis, don't see a problem with it.

No wonder it takes 4 - 6 months to make the 44 sales, it would do part time.

I had a very short period selling insurance when I had a business go broke and then could not find a decent job because I was too old - it was the worse thing I ever did!

AND hated it, hated it, hated it. Some people made a very good living at it, but I felt I was just trying to con people out of their hard earned wages by selling FEAR not insurance.
Also, ( and few realised this) for the first three years ALL their premiums go on the company's profit and your commission.

Thanks for your input, including Herc. That's kind of what I'm afraid of getting into. I don't want to work for an unethical company. I went to my meeting with this company today and told them that I am not interested in continuing to train and be in their 'reserve period' for 6 months while not making enough money to survive. I asked her to ask around local agents to see if there are any receptionist positions at any of the offices, which would allow me to make an hourly wage, and would do away with the waiting period.

If that doesn't pan out, I applied to about 5 jobs today and have heard back from two already. I have an interview setup with one of them for Wednesday. It's for another insurance agency, but I'll see if it might be something I could make a living off of. That's all I really want right now. A job that makes money. Seems like a simple request, but it's been awfully complicated so far.

Good luck!

Thanks!

Hi mucker,

Re-active sales jobs are not so bad, e.g. counter staff, or call centre where you take incoming calls, or similar. Although dealing with the general public in stressful situations, e.g. airport check in staff in disruption, can definitely be testing.

The simple truth is that all pro-active sales jobs put you in a harsh environment. Sales folk live with that and maybe it does rub off on them as people. But what you do in a war situation does not define you as a person (as some say) and sales folk see it just like that, it's war.. ..I have to win at (perhaps) any cost being the attitude.

In a commission only situation you have to sell to eat, then no sell-no eat. Ethics are wonderful things when you're not hungry and you're sat in a cosy room by the fire and you have options. But if you can't find any other options and you can face a zero payslip for 2 or 3 month's in a row, with no money to put food on the table, and still keep going, and win through, and your ethics are pliable then you're CO sales, if not then you aren't. You have to live with that, it's 8:00pm, it's gonna be the last call of the day, you need a sale, you knock on that door.. they have to buy... And if they simply buy from you because they need the product, you're not really sales, you're an order taker, that's a different job altogether...

What is wrong is that those guys didn't tell you up front what you were getting into, but then they never do.. Typically nobody does that type of selling unless they have little or no other option... And if little or no ethics apply for their customers, why would they have any for their employees either.. You quit, (you failed as they see it) OK, they find someone else..

If it's not for you, it's not for you.

I quit door to door because I didn't really like putting people through what door to door is, and I've quit other sales jobs where I felt the service or quality wasn't there, but I have seen harsh treatment by sales people (far harsher than me..) and it's not pleasant. Like refusing to leave someone's house until they place the order because, "..I'm sorry madam, I just can't let you pass up this Golden opportunity, I just couldn't live with myself.." etc. there are many other 'lies' that are used. It's a Special Promotion, it ends tonight, I can't let you lose out on this sir, I just can't.. you'll so regret this if you don't sign here.. I'll just call my manager now and make sure it's not too late.. he'll then speak to you over the phone.. (a technique sometimes called, 'Introducing Fagan..') It doesn't matter if it's double glazing, a $2,000 vacuum cleaner, Time Share, Insurance you name it these methods can be applied to all product, and the methods are all the same, it is intimidation, coercion, selling fear (as Herc said) and it WORKS..

You've done the right thing.

Also here's a thought, if you can't find quality work where you live sometimes you have to leave where you live and go where the work is. I left Sheffield in 1980 and moved to London (not far admittedly, only 170 miles) to live in a small house with 9 other men (don't put anything in the fridge..) It worked out for me.. 9 months later I was able to do better.. after some harsh situations..

Good luck in your endeavours!

Frank

I have 500$ to my name, and 450$ in loan payments to make next week. I'm really not in a position to move. I wish I were.

Applied to about 6 more jobs today. The job market here is abysmal, but something will turn up. I'm not expecting a 'good' job, I'm just hoping to be able to be able to pay my bills, and buy petrol so that I can show up to whatever work I find. Food isn't so much in the budget at the moment. Thankfully I have supportive family and friends. It is a stressful time though. I'm awful at life-transitions.