Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 6th November 2017, 8:54 PM

Why do you pull dubious facts about other countries to defend your own.

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Because people (yourself included) point to other countries as examples of what America could/should be like, even though there are vast differences in cultures and demographics and history and circumstances. By the way, there's no such thing as a dubious fact. A fact, by definition, is factual and the polar opposite of dubious.

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 6th November 2017, 8:54 PM

Murders of children in this case - but it wasn't a gun that did it.

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A determined killer will kill with whatever he or she has at hand. The maniac in Nice killed 3 times as many people as the Texas shooter and all he used was a stolen truck. Was the truck to be blamed? Should trucks be banned? Should it be illegal to steal a truck and use it to kill people?

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 6th November 2017, 8:54 PM

I can see that you are never going to be swayed, happy in your own skewed logic and blinkers.
What we call a gun nut.

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Call me what you will if it makes you feel better, but my logic and mind are both quite sound.

Quote: zooo @ 6th November 2017, 8:55 PM

So if it's not the guns that give America the huge murder rate, but the people, what you're saying is that Americans are just especially violent and murderous?

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Absolutely. We have a subset/subclass of Americans who carry out the vast majority of gun crimes. They are drug dealers, gang members and street criminals and they commit most of our gun crimes. They have nothing in common with most Americans, especially Americans who possess firearms legally and safely. The psychos who kill a bunch of strangers get all the press (and the press gives them the notoriety and public forum they so greatly desire) but the biggest part of gun crime in America is the steady drip, drip, drip of murders that take place in our cities. The average yearly death toll in a city like Chicago (Obama's home) greatly exceeds the annual number of deaths caused by spree killers in the entire country, but nobody wants to talk about it. They just want to enact more useless legislation that does nothing to stop gun crime.

Quote: Definitely Tarby @ 6th November 2017, 9:09 PM

I'm not going to start making accusations because that's pointless but something needs to change with the gun culture in America which now seems more unlikely than ever. Gun ownership is enshrined in something called the Second Ammendment so that would suggest there could be further ammendments to move with the times of society. The wording of it sounds very dated and more relevant when it was written during a time when law enforcement was still developing but in the modern age civilians should feel safe enough with law enforcement without needing guns as home protection.

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Those are all good points and they show that you're thinking about things rationally, rather than just emotionally. I'll make a few points of my own:

1) There are two different so-called gun cultures in this country and they are vastly different. One is made up of law-abiding sportsmen, collectors and people who feel compelled to protect themselves for any number of reasons. The other is a culture that glorifies violence, guns, drugs, street crime and gangs. One group uses firearms legally and properly almost without exception, while the other uses guns illegally and improperly almost without exception.

2) The wording of the amendment may seem antiquated and vague, but the authors purposely wrote it that way. It has been upheld by the Supreme Court as legal and proper many times.

3) The average police response time is about 10 minutes, but it may be much longer in rural areas. As your video showed, that is not enough time in a deadly situation. Whenever our politicians tell us that we should give up our weapons and count on the police to protect us, voters remember that those same politicians and their families are protected 24/7 by armed bodyguards and police officers. Until every American is afforded the same level of protection, I wouldn't hold my breath when it comes to disarming them and counting only on the police.

Quote: Definitely Tarby @ 6th November 2017, 9:09 PM

Ultimately I don't think anyone can understand gun ownership in America unless you have grown up there because it's not just about protection but also game hunting and sports shooting like the discipline at the Olympics so I can see that activity forging a deep bond with child and parent so they grow up to feel very passionate about firearms and the NRA which may then be incorrectly viewed by others as fanaticism. This is why I can't stand it when Piers 'Twathead' Morgan has these moments of fury on Breakfast TV when talking to pro gun campaigners because he's lived in America but wasn't born and brought up there. He has no meaninful or helpful opinions or suggestions other than the standard "BAN ALL GUNS" which is obviously never going to happen for the reasons DaButt points out. Banning something doesn't make it go away.

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Bravo. Well said. Even though you don't live here, you seem to have a good handle on the situation.

Well you're never going to believe it's because of your lax laws and we're never going to understand your logic.

And yet we go through this every time there's a mass shooting!

Which means we will reconvene here next week.

Quote: Chappers @ 6th November 2017, 10:48 PM

Well you're never going to believe it's because of your lax laws and we're never going to understand your logic.

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da man

Quote: DaButt @ 6th November 2017, 3:15 PM

Australia's gun confiscation program only took in about 20% of their firearms

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Yes, and it has resulted in about 200 fewer gun deaths per year. However, there has been a 700% increase in deaths by cricket bats.

Quote: DaButt @ 6th November 2017, 3:15 PM

But we would see a vibrant black market in firearms, similar to the thriving underground gun trade that began in Australia after their confiscation scene was enacted.

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Thriving underground gun trade? When semi-automatic weapons were banned, criminals had to pay much higher prices to obtain them on the black market - about $10,000 a gun. They're not easy to come by. Many of the gun crimes in Australia involve gangs fighting other gangs, not loons just strolling into their local gun shop and then deciding to slaughter a bunch of people.

Bravo to you for supporting America's culture of guns. America needs a national mental revolution to realize that guns are bad, but it's much easier to do nothing and claim there would be a civil war if the American government amended its constitution and tried to make the country safer. Because guns are fun, no matter how many people get slaughtered.

Quote: Kenneth @ 7th November 2017, 12:50 AM

Yes, and it has resulted in about 200 fewer gun deaths per year. However, there has been a 700% increase in deaths by cricket bats.

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Your countries cricket team for 11

Getting ready to head to the airport for a quick trip to Los Angeles with my neighbor and his teenage daughter. Having dinner with my daughter and grandson in Orange County tonight, giving the teen a tour of Hollywood and Beverly Hills tomorrow, Morrissey concert at the Hollywood Bowl tomorrow night, and then a return flight Sunday morning. Hopefully nobody will Weinstein us while we're there.

Quote: DaButt @ 10th November 2017, 2:36 PM

Getting ready to head to the airport for a quick trip to Los Angeles with my neighbor and his teenage daughter. Having dinner with my daughter and grandson in Orange County tonight, giving the teen a tour of Hollywood and Beverly Hills tomorrow, Morrissey concert at the Hollywood Bowl tomorrow night, and then a return flight Sunday morning. Hopefully nobody will Weinstein us while we're there.

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Sounds great, except for the Morrissey bit...

Nah, Morrissey is great.

He's a dickhead, but some of his music's alright!

Quote: zooo @ 10th November 2017, 7:20 PM

He's a dickhead, but some of his music's alright!

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This.

He canceled 3 straight shows on us in Texas, so we decided to go to Hollywood. We left our houses 4 hours ago and now we're 200 miles further away from Los Angeles than when we started (currently in Houston) but we've had multiple margaritas, so all is well.

Hey all.

I haven't been on the site for ages, been busy with a lot of stuff in life for the last few years or so.

But a lot has changed I see, and it looks brilliant.