Quote: lofthouse @ June 17 2011, 9:53 PM BSTLabour lost in 1992 because people wouldn't vote for a balding Welshman.
They were a ridiculous, pathetic party. Not wholly unlike the Conservatives in the early 2000s. Weak and unelectable, and a wild mix of policies.
Quote: Aaron @ June 17 2011, 10:16 PM BSTThey were a ridiculous, pathetic party. Not wholly unlike the Conservatives in the early 2000s. Weak and unelectable, and a wild mix of policies.
Like the current government then.
Quote: Aaron @ June 17 2011, 10:16 PM BSTThey were a ridiculous, pathetic party. Not wholly unlike the Conservatives in the early 2000s. Weak and unelectable, and a wild mix of policies.
They were the same party that won just a few years later in 1997 with a HUGE landslide.
Same party, same policies.
The difference? Tony Blair instead of Kinnock.
A youngish, middle class, more 'presentable' leader and they get a landslide win.
Nothing to do with politics.
Labour & Kinnock? No, he's a loud mouth ginger Welshman.
Labour & Blair oh, yes please! He's a nice chap.
Pathetic.
Quote: lofthouse @ June 17 2011, 10:30 PM BSTLabour & Blair oh, yes please! He's a nice chap.
Pathetic.
Oh I know, Blair was a c**t as well.
Quote: Aaron @ June 17 2011, 10:42 PM BSTOh I know, Blair was a c**t as well.
This isn't about Blair though.
It's about the fickle morons who are allowed to vote in elections!
Take the last election. The Lib Dems were nowhere in the polls. Nowhere. THEN, they did those pointless X Factor style TV shows and just cos Clegg managed to string a few words together BANG! The Lib Dems shot up about anout 15% in the opinion polls in a matter of hours!
If that had been Menzies Campbell it wouldn't have happened and The Tories would probably have got their majority.
Anyway! It's Friday night, I'm drunk! F**k politics.
Quote: lofthouse @ June 17 2011, 10:47 PM BSTTake the last election. The Lib Dems were nowhere in the polls. Nowhere. THEN, they did those pointless X Factor style TV shows and just cos Clegg managed to string a few words together BANG! The Lib Dems shot up about anout 15% in the opinion polls in a matter of hours!
To be fair, a lot of the Lib Dems' rise in the polls should be put down to how little media exposure they had before the debates, rather than some X Factor style celebrity glam that Clegg offered.
Anyway, this is the wrong thread to be discussing politics. Woops.
Quote: sootyj @ June 17 2011, 7:17 AM BSTEnd of Apparhteid, fall of the Berlin Wall etc etc
No they didn't make these things happen, they drew attention and kept them in the public conciesness.
Thank you - Sootyj - this is exactly what I meant when I say that comedians, musicians and other artists contribute in some small way.
Keeping issues in the public consciousness and bringing them to the attention of sectors of the public that might otherwise be apathetic is an important part of change. To suggest that things that go on television contribute in no way to public sentiment seems rather naive.
Again, I am NOT saying that they were the ones responsible for Maggie's resignation or overthrowing the Tories.
Quote: Aaron @ June 17 2011, 5:58 PM BSTOh, entertainers can certainly undermine politicians - as individuals - but they alone cannot break them, and certainly cannot turn the mood to such an extent to bring down a popular government.
Agreed - but when a lot of entertainment/media people are saying the same thing - it does help a bit.
It's not a British fact - but in the toppling of the conservative government in Australia in 2007, Labour was certainly helped by the media, and a top rating politcal satire called "The Chaser" provided some of the most damaging and broadly appealing critique of the government.
Anyway, to veer back to the topic, there has been mention of making another "The Comic Strip" series with a younger/newer group of comedians/comic actors. I would like to see this as there are a lot of funny people who are in disparate, short lived comic projects at the moment and it would be good for them to be gathered together in an ensemble under Ricchardson's mentorship.
If Richardson's dire 2004 offering Churchill: The Hollywood Years is anything to go by, any future Comic Strip projects will be embarrassing disasters.
And politically influenced comedy/music works both ways.
Labour may have had Red Wedge and The Comic Strip et al.
They were battling Jim Davidson, Cliff Richard etc who love the heartless whore.
So the result was a draw. Same way as in the US Bush had massive support in Fox etc. Don't forget a hefty percentage of Americans still think WMDs were found.
The answer is of course to ban pro conservative media outlets like the BBC.
I think celebs have a minimal impact. And they usually preach to the choir anyway - e.g., the type of people who pay attention to Thom Yorke's opinions are the type of people interested in the issues already. Or students, who don't count.
Quote: chipolata @ June 18 2011, 9:06 AM BSTI think celebs have a minimal impact. And they usually preach to the choir anyway - e.g., the type of people who pay attention to Thom Yorke's opinions are the type of people interested in the issues already. Or students, who don't count.
Maintaining and enrgising one's base is how democracy works, it's much more important to ensure your existing supporters come out and vote then getting new ones.
I suppose it's hard to understand if you don't stand for very much.
Quote: sootyj @ June 18 2011, 10:24 AM BSTMaintaining and enrgising one's base is how democracy works, it's much more important to ensure your existing supporters come out and vote then getting new ones. I suppose it's hard to understand if you don't stand for very much.
I stand for a lot, I just don't need Chris Martin from Coldplay telling what's important.
Why focus on Chris Martin and not Mark Thomas or Billy Bragg?
You sir couldn't debate Joy Deacon!
Quote: sootyj @ June 18 2011, 10:45 AM BSTWhy focus on Chris Martin and not Mark Thomas or Billy Bragg? You sir couldn't debate Joy Deacon!
Because Martin reaches more people than either Bragg or Thomas. I'm not saying that an artist shouldn't deal with issues and have a social conscience, especially if they're well informed, I just question how much influence they have.
Dickens had a lot of influence on how poverty was viewed, not to mention the Powell and Pressburger films of World War2.
Or George Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm in how communism was viewed. Or Rain Man in how autism was viewed.
And Seaside special in helping reinvigorate the English tourist industry.
