Doctor Who... Page 1078

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sootyj

  • Tuesday 8th July 2014, 6:28pm [Edited]
  • England
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Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 8th July 2014, 5:51 PM BST Dracula is another classic example, in all of the Hammer Films he was portrayed as the baddy, yet he returned time after time because women like evil charming seducers and overtones of rape.

and by men who fantasise about being an immortal, amoral, murder/rapist.

Funny thing is I doubt these men and women would date each other as fantasy tends to be just that, fantasy.

although anyone buying the following book should be barred from ever opening a fishmongers

http://theworstthingsforsale.com/2013/05/22/someone-to-cuttle/

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Steve Sunshine

  • Wednesday 9th July 2014, 2:01am
  • Dagenham, England
  • 14,665 posts

I've just read some of the scripts
The new series will be disappointing
Godot will hate it & Stott will like much of it although not always everything
Marc P will talk about Story

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dannyjb1

  • Wednesday 9th July 2014, 9:12am
  • England
  • 2,464 posts
Quote: Steve Sunshine @ 9th July 2014, 2:01 AM BST I've just read some of the scripts
The new series will be disappointing
Godot will hate it & Stott will like much of it although not always everything
Marc P will talk about Story

I have been looking for these leaked scripts everywhere to no avail, can you PM a link :)

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Ben

  • Wednesday 9th July 2014, 11:03pm
  • England
  • 18,410 posts

I've read the opening scene and rather enjoyed it, but I shall not read any more.

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Godot Taxis

  • Saturday 12th July 2014, 1:41am
  • England
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Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 8th July 2014, 5:44 PM BST Change the names and you have James Bond or any other sophisticated, intelligent, anti-hero that dispenses violence to solve problems. Get this, in real life, spies cowardly poison Russian dissidents with radioactive sushi or are found dead in their own bathtubs after bondage sex games have gone awry.

Your argument is built on sand and your Moral GPS bought down the market from a dodgy Bulgarian.

My argument is better than yours because you don't have one. You just want to be allowed to watch people eating their own noses.

You're the water-seller in the third row of the top tier of the Coliseum (Not the one on St. Martin's Lane) spunking into his loincloth at the sight of people being stabbed in the face and disembowelled.

You don't care what it means or what wanting to watch it says about you. That's fine. I wouldn't want it banned but I'd rather there was no will to write and make it.

And James Bond isn't about spying, it's about aspirant consumerism - cars, Rolexes, foreign travel, exotic, adoring women. The Birds isn't about being attacked by Birds, Bonnie and Clyde isn't about Clyde Barrow and Bonnie Parker. You're such an innocent, RC.

Quote: sootyj @ 8th July 2014, 5:45 PM BST But Godot in the first 2 films and certainly in the books, Lecter is amoral and unsympathetic a cracked reflection to the heroes. It's depressing that so many people don't get Clarice Starling is absolutely the heroine.

The film of Red Dragon is excellent and quite serious. It's very unpleasant in parts but it's not the hymn to psychopathic self-fulfillment the other movies are. Probably because Lecter is a secondary character.

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sootyj

  • Saturday 12th July 2014, 1:45am
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I'd agree with that
Though interestingly in sotl lecter vanishes for the last third of the film

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Renegade Carpark

  • Saturday 12th July 2014, 1:58pm
  • England
  • 11,291 posts
Quote: Godot Taxis @ 12th July 2014, 1:41 AM BST
You don't care what it means or what wanting to watch it says about you. That's fine. I wouldn't want it banned but I'd rather there was no will to write and make it.

And James Bond isn't about spying, it's about aspirant consumerism - cars, Rolexes, foreign travel, exotic, adoring women.

You're damn right I don't care what it says about me...because it's a f**king TV show - a point I thought I made earlier. It's beautifully shot, well written, finely acted and is full of deep psychological discussions on the nature of man.

Did you watch Breaking Bad? Then you must love drugs and drug dealers and drug dealers who murder people, you don't care what wanting to watch it says about you. Your argument has gone from a foundation of silica to an abode comprised of pieces of cardboard adorned with imagery of monocular minor royalty.

As for James Bond - here was me thinking it was a boy's own adventure propelled to prominence as Western propaganda during something called 'The Cold War'. How foolish of me not to note the consumerist superficiality as it's main theme.

Again, save your 'sky is falling' numptyness for somewhere more suited...like Mumsnet. You can go on there with the other Chicken Littles and squawk over the decline of Western civilisation due to Grand Theft Auto 5. Puh-leeze.

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sootyj

  • Saturday 12th July 2014, 2:30pm
  • England
  • 51,287 posts

Oddly enough Breaking Bad, Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, later seasons of Dexter just haven't drawn me in at all. I think they're great, beautiful TV, great actors, amazing shots, crafted works and even the scripts have had some great lines.
But there's a heartless sadism a revelling in brutality and violence that I can't get into. Somehow early Dexter or Sopranos it just wasn't there.

I watched an old episode of the Bill the other day when it was a story line about some decent cops going after a brutal, serial rapist.
It felt real, unglamourised and the villain a convincingly pathetic character with a deep feeling of inadequacy. It was both more interesting and scarier than the bigger budgetted shows.

I suppose its just a trend maybe the next stage is a return to Fantasy Island and the Brady Bunch.

Micheal Fassbinder is an amazing actor though,

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Godot Taxis

  • Saturday 12th July 2014, 2:44pm
  • England
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You keep talking about mumsnet - I don't even know what it is - you're the one plugged into all the shit of now. You've managed to double my post count in half the time writing on every topic known to man.

Breaking Bad is excellent - as is the Wire. Enjoying either has nothing to do with 'loving drug dealers'. You just can't understand what I'm saying. It is not the plot of Hannibal that I find unacceptable - although I do think it's sad and awful - it's the thinking behind it. Red Dragon has all the horror of Hannibal and is a 'movie' in the sense that it exaggerates things to create tension but ultimately it has a fairly healthy view of human behaviour. Dolorhyde's crimes are explained rather than celebrated, and there is little prurience and no admiration - unlike Hannibal.

You don't get what I'm saying because, if not like Hannibal, you're certainly like the people who created him and secretly admire him. You describe yourself as a liberal, you frequently post comments that suggest you prioritise your own feelings and interests above anyone else's. You probably think people who do otherwise are stupid or illogical.

You missed the chance to make a Skyfall pun.

GTA V is not very good. It has no soul. GTA IV is excellent. Lots of people have trouble with the violent behaviour that is possible in the game. I'm not one of them. It is obvious you are dispersing pixels and not killing people and in a clinical sense there is no identification possible, so no atrocity. It's interesting that rape is not possible in the game though.

Anyone who write 'puh-leeze' needs to read better texts.

Quote: sootyj @ 12th July 2014, 2:30 PM BST I watched an old episode of the Bill the other day when it was a story line about some decent cops going after a brutal, serial rapist.
It felt real, unglamourised and the villain a convincingly pathetic character with a deep feeling of inadequacy. It was both more interesting and scarier than the bigger budgetted shows.

Sooty, you would enjoy series 3-5 of Murphy's law if you can get hold of it. Don't bother with the first two, they're routine joke/chase/shoot/joke policers.

Different programme.

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sootyj

  • Saturday 12th July 2014, 2:47pm
  • England
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I remember that James Nesbitt is a sorely underrated serious actor.

oh erm Dr Who's great lets hope the new Dr's good to,

Daleks.

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Renegade Carpark

  • Saturday 12th July 2014, 3:33pm
  • England
  • 11,291 posts
Quote: sootyj @ 12th July 2014, 2:30 PM BST Breaking Bad, Walking Dead, Game of Thrones...Sopranos

Quote: sootyj @ 12th July 2014, 2:30 PM BST
I watched an old episode of the Bill the other day

:|

Does this argument need to go any further?

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sootyj

  • Saturday 12th July 2014, 3:34pm
  • England
  • 51,287 posts

No idea what you're getting at

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Renegade Carpark

  • Saturday 12th July 2014, 3:57pm
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Quote: Godot Taxis @ 12th July 2014, 2:44 PM BST
Breaking Bad is excellent - as is the Wire. Enjoying either has nothing to do with 'loving drug dealers'. You just can't understand what I'm saying. It is not the plot of Hannibal that I find unacceptable - although I do think it's sad and awful - it's the thinking behind it. Red Dragon has all the horror of Hannibal and is a 'movie' in the sense that it exaggerates things to create tension but ultimately it has a fairly healthy view of human behaviour. Dolorhyde's crimes are explained rather than celebrated, and there is little prurience and no admiration - unlike Hannibal.

You don't get what I'm saying because, if not like Hannibal, you're certainly like the people who created him and secretly admire him. You describe yourself as a liberal, you frequently post comments that suggest you prioritise your own feelings and interests above anyone else's. You probably think people who do otherwise are stupid or illogical.

I think I'm getting to where you are coming from and I don't like it. Just like American Horror Story, Hannibal is a piece of modern gothic horror. It also treats it's viewers as grown ups who can discern between fantasy and reality. And this can cause some people to feel uneasy.

Horror, like other fantastical genres is treated in this country like a kid's show - as I've pointed out previously - the US has Game of Thrones, we have Merlin. We also have a tradition of piss miserable, grim as shite, depressing crime television with zero glamour or finesse attached to it. Junkie stabs woman in stomach, alcoholic police detective gets yelled at by chav, bent copper says something sexist, television viewer feels both let down and suicidal, the end.

Hannibal, like Freddy Kruger or Jason Vorhees isn't based on a real life serial killer, it's a fantastical imagining - much like other fictional bogeymen. It is also firmly rooted in the horror genre with it's own set of rules. Hannibal is no worse or better then The Child Snatcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang or the previously mentioned Dracula.

You seem to be alarmed that Hannibal and the people who enjoy it are somehow being 'tainted' by what they see on screen. That they secretly harbour desires to spill blood and eat human flesh, that murder is being glamorised or the viewer desensitised (so did Mary Whitehouse oddly). Worst of all, Hannibal is shown to be an intelligent, erudite, sophisticated killer - welcome to the wonderful world of fiction. In real life, very few people get murdered by a serial killer and even fewer get chopped up, cooked and served with a vintage Bordeaux.

Breaking Bad and Hannibal have a few things in common, but chiefly it's the portrayal of the villain as protagonist. However, the show Hannibal knows it's protagonist is a villain, unlike Breaking Bad which ultimately gets you rooting for a man who kills people because he wants to sell drugs and who in the final episode (Spoilers!) admits that he didn't do any of it for his family, he did it for himself.

Do I secretly admire a cannibalistic serial killer? Am I a 'liberal'? The answer to both is no - my favourite television protagonist is Robert McCall aka The Equalizer and I would consider myself a libertarian not a liberal - though I do have a few liberal leanings, I think everyone in the West has to.

People who champion one television show with copious amounts of fictional, glamorised violence but condemn another television show with equal amounts of fictional, glamorised violence are indeed stupid and illogical. It doesn't matter if it's Ruth Rendall, The Killing or Hannibal, viewers tune in to see the grisly murders and the crime drama because they are far removed from it in everyday life.

Quote: sootyj @ 12th July 2014, 3:34 PM BST No idea what you're getting at

That you're championing a run of the mill cop drama but criticising some of the best television created in the last 10 years. It seems somewhat...baffling.

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sootyj

  • Saturday 12th July 2014, 4:05pm
  • England
  • 51,287 posts

I dunno it's better.

Micheangelo's better than Banksy but he died 500 years ago.

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zooo

  • Saturday 12th July 2014, 4:11pm
  • United Kingdom
  • 69,200 posts

Yes but The Bill is Banksy and The Walking Dead is Michelangelo.