Like a country music concert in Las Vegas?
Aww, shoot. Let's bang on about guns. Try to stay on target. Page 2
Quote: DaButt @ 28th November 2017, 12:10 AM
I've read of a sociological term I forget the name of which states that the vast majority of gun murder victims are gun carrying criminals themselves so in effect what these frightening looking criminal gangs as above are very largely doing is exterminating other gun criminals, doing the police or courts' jobs for them. In most cases if you don't involve yourselves in their chosen crime such as drug selling then you are pretty much not at risk from them. The problem sort of contains itself in a tight criminal gang based vicious circle.
Quote: beaky @ 29th November 2017, 1:10 PMLike a country music concert in Las Vegas?
Okay nutcase postal massacres do happen in nice peaceful places over there but if you calculated the odds of yourself getting shot in one of them on a visit there it would be even greater than my odds of getting a sitcom on TV. 
America is a very big space and 'time' is even vaster.
Quote: beaky @ 29th November 2017, 1:10 PMLike a country music concert in Las Vegas?
Twelve months after I stayed at the Hilton on Edgware Road, someone blew up the same Tube trains that my daughter and I had ridden daily, equalling the Las Vegas death toll; the hotel lobby was used as a triage center for victims. I've also walked the bridges in London where more than a dozen people were run down, stabbed and killed.
A few years after I attended a concert at Le Bataclan in Paris, 90 people were killed there by attackers armed with guns and bombs.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 29th November 2017, 1:31 PMI've read of a sociological term I forget the name of which states that the vast majority of gun murder victims are gun carrying criminals themselves so in effect what these frightening looking criminal gangs as above are very largely doing is exterminating other gun criminals, doing the police or courts' jobs for them. In most cases if you don't involve yourselves in their chosen crime such as drug selling then you are pretty much not at risk from them. The problem sort of contains itself in a tight criminal gang based vicious circle.
Very true, although sometimes the effects leak out onto innocents. Avoid the "bad" parts of town and you'll be fine. I occasionally see gang members around my city, but as long as you don't pick a fight with them there aren't likely to be any problems.
An illustration of the disparity: murder is the leading cause of death for young African-American males:
Also forgive me for mentioning that Spain has been victim to many devastating acts of terrorism. Your survival odds are certainly no worse in USA.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 29th November 2017, 1:51 PMAlso forgive me for mentioning that Spain has been victim to many devastating acts of terrorism. Your survival odds are certainly no worse in USA.
A large city almost anywhere in the world is going to be more dangerous than a small, rural town. Even if that small rural town is full of Americans who are (legally) carrying guns.
I've mentioned in the past that marijuana is still illegal under federal law and that users are forbidden to own/buy guns, but there hasn't been much of an uproar from pot-smoking gun owners. I've also described how gun registries are the first step on the march to gun confiscation, since they tell the government where the guns are.
Behold:
Hawaii is one of the few states which requires gun owners to register their weapons. They cross-referenced that registry with their medical marijuana user registry and notified them that they have 30 days to surrender their weapons.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article187082303.html
Quite right, too!
Quote: DaButt @ 30th November 2017, 6:24 PMI've mentioned in the past that marijuana is still illegal under federal law and that users are forbidden to own/buy guns, but there hasn't been much of an uproar from pot-smoking gun owners. I've also described how gun registries are the first step on the march to gun confiscation, since they tell the government where the guns are.
Behold:
Hawaii is one of the few states which requires gun owners to register their weapons. They cross-referenced that registry with their medical marijuana user registry and notified them that they have 30 days to surrender their weapons.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article187082303.html
So you don't feel that marijuana users wielding guns are a problem to be fixed?
That the right to bear arms (or bare arms, being in Hawaii) just in case the government get so oppressive that the civilians need to revolt and fight against the immensely powerful USA army, trumps drug-using-guys shooting-guns while under-the-influence?
Quote: DaButt @ 29th November 2017, 1:50 PMTwelve months after I stayed at the Hilton on Edgware Road, someone blew up the same Tube trains that my daughter and I had ridden daily, equalling the Las Vegas death toll
Which one was that? (Not that I disbelieve you, I just can't remember it.)
*edit*
Oh! You mean the July 7 bombings. Combining all the deaths from the various bombs. I'm with ya.
Quote: billwill @ 1st December 2017, 3:40 PMSo you don't feel that marijuana users wielding guns are a problem to be fixed?
Honestly? Not really. It's (somewhat) legal and someone who took a few puffs is probably more trustworthy than someone who drank a bottle of whisky.
But my point wasn't really about marijuana. It was about how gun registries make it easy for authorities to disarm citizens by telling them who has what guns, and where. The age of big data is upon us and nearly everything we do is recorded and stored in a database somewhere. Next it might be anyone whose credit card shows nightly purchases of alcohol at the pub. Or someone who is taking antidepressants for a short time. It would all be in the name of the public good, of course, but the point is that the government should not be in the habit of removing constitutional rights, especially if someone does something that's legal in the eyes of the law.
These laws are ok if you agree with them.
But if you don't, they are eroding your constitutional rights.
Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 1st December 2017, 5:47 PMThese laws are ok if you agree with them.
But if you don't, they are eroding your constitutional rights.
Imagine if the NHS refused to treat you if you drink more than two pints per week. Drinking isn't illegal, but I'd consider it an erosion of your rights.
Anytime someone suggests a firearm registry the pro-gun folks get up in arms (figuratively) and say that it will lead to confiscation. Hawaii's actions have proven that the worries are well-founded.
It is widely agreed that the United States has an exceptional gun culture. Although Great Britain is America's "mother country," the two nations have very different arms cultures. Why so? Historically, two reasons were especially important in the early colonial period:
1. The practical differences between conditions in America and in Great Britain.
2. The influence of American Indians.What today is called "American gun culture" is founded on American Indian arms culture. The convergence of Europeans and American Indians produced a new, hybrid arms culture. Although that culture has changed over the centuries, we can still find in 21st century arms culture the influence of the Anglo-Indian convergence along the 17th century Atlantic seaboard.
A very interesting scholarly article from the Washington Post that traces American "gun culture" back to Native Americans. Lots of tie-ins with our British overlords, too.
Quote: DaButt @ 1st December 2017, 5:53 PMImagine if the NHS refused to treat you if you drink more than two pints per week. Drinking isn't illegal, but I'd consider it an erosion of your rights.
Anytime someone suggests a firearm registry the pro-gun folks get up in arms (figuratively) and say that it will lead to confiscation. Hawaii's actions have proven that the worries are well-founded.
NHS are already considering not treating heavy smokers older than some particular age. I think.
Hawaii's database actions are not the erosion of rights; it was the passing of the law or regulation that marijuana users may not own guns that was the erosion of rights.
What you are talking about is a mythical right to break the law.
Quote: DaButt @ 1st December 2017, 6:37 PMA very interesting scholarly article from the Washington Post that traces American "gun culture" back to Native Americans. Lots of tie-ins with our British overlords, too.
Nothing but feeble excuses and racism. Let's be honest, racism is at the heart of America's obsession with guns. Don't deny that you love them when you bray here endlessly in defense of guns. I pity the fools who need guns to have fun.